New speakers for a new start?


Hi all, this is my first thread on this forum. I am returning to audio after a 20-year hiatus, and I am planning a new-to-me, music-only, 2-channel system. I'm pretty excited!

Other than my Thorens TD-320 series I, I am (re-)starting from scratch. I plan to focus on speakers, then build the rest of my system around them.

I look forward to hearing folks' feedback and advice during this process.

How I listen: I have a pretty big room, 9' ceilings. I can set speakers in a 10' triangle with about 16' clear behind them and 3' to 6' to the sides. I normally listen around 75 - 85db at 10', but sometimes I like to crank things way up. Also, I can't sit still for extended periods of time so I tend to move around quite a bit.

What I listen to: 30 - 40% blues, 30 - 40% industrial, punk, post-punk, noise, and hip-hop, 10-15% ambient, 10 - 15% various pop styles, 5 to 10% jazz and classical. Nearly all are studio recordings. Source-wise, 75-80% digital streaming, 20% vinyl and (very occasionally) CDs.

Things I like in speakers: A generous amount of fast, tight, well-controlled bass with great extension. Little to no coloration - it can always be added in later through component selection. Fast transient response. Detail. Coherence. Transparency. Great dynamics. I'm OK with "analytical" or "dry" within reason.

Things I don't like: Boominess. Flabiness. Ear-piercing mids.

Here are a few speakers I'm interested to learn more about (in no particular order):
- Thiel CS5
- Dunlavy SC-4, SC-5
- Tyler Acoustics D1x, D10
- Nearfield Pipedreams 21
- Infinity IRS (probably not the Reference behemoths though... realistically)
- I am also intrigued by open baffle designs (Spatial, Jamo R909)

I prefer full-range speakers because I don't love subs with music listening. They're a must in a home theater though.

I love planar speakers for their speed and transparency, but the fact that I can't sit still in their minuscule sweet spot for very long, coupled with their general lack of bass probably makes them a less than ideal choice for me.

I will buy used gear unless something I want happens to be available new at a huge discount. I am more interested in value than in staying within a specific dollar limit and be able to resell at par or at a modest loss if, as time goes by, I find I'm no longer as enamored with them as I once was.

I am interested in your experiences, especially with the speakers I mentioned above, but any and all feedback is appreciated. Thanks in advance!
 

devinplombier
Post removed 

I’d go for Ohm Walsh 5000s or similar:

Ohm Walsh 5 Series 3

if you can find a pair or afford new ones and drive them with a high power newer Class D amplification, 100 watts minimum or as high as you can go. I’d recommend Hypex or Purifi based like those from Vtv, Orchard, or Deer Creek or maybe one of the newer GaN based Class D amps. Peachtree Corina GaN would be an easy choice. PASCAL based like D Sonic for example or Benchmark amplification using their AHB2 amp is another option if a more clinical pro audio type sound is what you like. Once settled look at options for streaming and applying DSP to best enable fine tuning system to room and listening preferences.

I auditioned a set of Sanders 10e speakers driven by a pair of Sanders Magtech monoblocks and a dbx active crossover and DSP unit.

Yes, I know they are the exact opposite of some of the things I’ve said I wanted. Their sweet spot is strictly one-person wide. No "social" listening here, although those dire move-your-head-one-inch-to-the-left-and-all-is-lost comments you read around forums are, let’s say hyperbolic. While the range of lateral motion the listener is allowed is definitely limited, vertical departure from the listening axis is worse. When I stood from the listening chair, the drastic deterioration in sound quality was shocking. It was literally as though a motorcycle helmet had been dropped on my head. I was not expecting that, but then again I am tall so my ear level was above the top of the panels.

In my book that’s not a total, complete, 100% showstopper - a person seldom listens to music standing up, after all - but it’s definitely a suboptimal attribute.

I’ll close the negative section with a passing mention that these speakers, while not offensively ugly like some, are no fashion statement either. They may look like Maggies propped up against large wood-clad air duct elbows, but I could live with them in my home. Again, no showstopper here.

Now on to the good part - they sounded totally fantastic. Not only do they have all the detail, speed, transparency, and lack of distortion coloration one expects from good panels, but the bass was really pretty amazing. Fast, deep, assertive and coherent, with good extension into the lowest octave.

I have certainly never heard hybrid electrostatics with such great bass integration before.

Only once did the 10" woofers hint that they do have limits, with a song whose truly grotesque amount of bass was better suited to a parking lot car-sub showdown (not sure who the artist was, it was not from the music I brought with me).

A pair of brand new Wilson Watt Puppies was also set up in the listening room. As a point of comparison, I listened to some of my music on them. They were paired with high quality electronics (better than the Sanders), as they were driven by massive Class A monoblocks. The Puppies sounded competent and had surprisingly good bass, but to my ears they felt uninvolving and dim. Even if they were not broken in, it was still probably a little unfair to audition them next to the Sanders, but it provided a good reference point.

The Sanders can play LOUD. Sanders say that their panels cannot arc and have virtually no power limit, so unlike most electrostatics a person can crank them without fear of doom.

I usually believe that less is more, so initially I felt unsure about the signal undergoing analog-to-digital-to-analog conversions in the DSP unit. But the result is what counts, and the Sanders sounded wonderful.

In summary - during this session I discovered amazingly good speakers, and I also managed to confuse myself further. Am I willing to live with the Sanders’ cramped, selfish listening spot? It’s not a definite no. Are there even speakers out there that rival the Sanders but without its stark limitations? I do want to audition Dutch & Dutch 8c (someone local is willing to oblige for a $200 fee, which is creditable to the purchase if I do decide to ,order a pair).

I am attracted towards DSP-based active speakers like the 8c and Legacy Focus XD, which are basically what the Sanders are, packaged.

 

Since the last post I have auditioned Dutch & Dutch 8c. Honestly they sounded amazing, but I had a lot of questions regarding features and usability that I couldn't find answers for in D&D's vaguely written website. Some got answered in this thread, including by Dutch & Dutch's owner:

Internally, we've referred to our vision as "high-end Sonos"

The above quote makes as good an executive summary as any for anyone not wishing to read the entire thread.