Wanna take it to the next level? Buy MORE speakers!


Did your two speakers take it to the next level? No, they never have and they never will, my friends.

Buy more speakers.

You will be happy because you will be placed in a cocoon of sonic nirvana, taken to the next level.

Sales guy will be happy because he will sell more speakers.

Everyone will be happy, it’s a win-win.

 

 

deep_333

@deep_333

Sorry to hear of your 2 channel struggles- you want a complete system with high sonics but are severely limited my your budget.

High End Audio is an expensive hobby because to bring sonics significantly above box store offerings, custom/expensive parts (Mundolf, Vishay, transformers, etc) , material advancements, vibration mitigation, custom casework, plus a small niche market drives the cost of doing business way up. This is a hardware based hobby so the latest tech is going to be costly. Trying to accomplish high level sonics by using lower cost alternatives is nearly impossible- no short cuts, although we wish there were.

It’s good that you at least take a break from high-end audio as it was causing you much grief- hobbies are supposed to be enjoyable. Desktop audio might be a budget friendly option - there’s a significant market size. Or maybe you can build your budget through additional income to fund your hobby.

Anyway, glad you landed in a good place.

@deep_333 --

Interesting topic. Never heard a well set-up multi channel system to convince me of its sonic/musical merits (which is also saying, implicitly, that I’ve heard a range of bland ones), not to say there aren’t good ones out there.

@phusis Many of these HT guys set up their gear optimizing for multiple sweet spots (including the mother-in-law seat), a.k.a. every sweet spot got compromised...not to mention some chair with a huge backrest covering the guy’s entire head! These are very straightforward observations one can make. There’s also a trend there which goes, "I paid for all these extra speakers, so i better hear them discreetly". The seamless soundfield went downhill that day and every speaker screeched on its own. It’s a bit too much of the quantity over quality with those guys, etc, etc. Hence, running into a setup that sounds good for music can be rare with that crew (Many of these guys are not audiophiles to begin with).

 

A typical scenario implies that I would listen to a multi-channel system quite different from my own with regard to the specific components used (not least the speakers), with the more interesting and relevant experiment being the one that was made around a component-similar expansion of my existing setup and seeing how that would turn out.

You would indeed fine tune the existing stereo setup for music before you added anything to it for multichannel.

What’s the worst thing that could happen? Maybe, you ended up with a killer rig for all the movies, tv, games, etc (but got a bit lackluster for music) and dropped it back to 2 channel for music, i.e. a 2 channel/multi-channel hybrid system.

What’s the best thing that could happen? Maybe, the multichannel add on did indeed blow the socks off your 2 channel and you stuck with it for all your content (music, movies, etc),

Even the best passive crossover components can’t escape the fact that they’re impeding with the amp to driver interface, potentially much more so the more complex they are, and it also means only taking partial advantage of your amp’s performance envelope instead of having it looking into a purer load actively.

What some may feel is gained from a "purist," analogue approach with quality component passive crossovers to others is missing the bigger picture in not taking into account its negative effect with regard to amp to driver interfacing. The quality of a DSP acting as a digital crossover actively is not irrelevant, but from my chair its overall sonic impact is of a significantly more "benign" nature as a line level, prior-to-amplification measure compared to a passive configuration on the output side of the amp, which affects both amp and driver performance more severely.

I tried the active route with a GR speaker kit and minidsp’s stuff. It is easier with a diy kit, you simply set the passive crosssover aside and interface with the minidsp kit. I didn’t get the best sound there and i almost felt like the minidsp unit was borderline faulty.

Storm Audio (not cheap) lets one go active with any number of speakers on their multichannel processors. When i did have that processor, i wasn’t thinking about the active route too much, i.e., was already invested in passive configurations and ended up selling it.

@deep_333

Sorry to hear of your 2 channel struggles- you want a complete system with high sonics but are severely limited my your budget.

High End Audio is an expensive hobby because to bring sonics significantly above box store offerings, custom/expensive parts (Mundolf, Vishay, transformers, etc) , material advancements, vibration mitigation, custom casework, plus a small niche market drives the cost of doing business way up. This is a hardware based hobby so the latest tech is going to be costly. Trying to accomplish high level sonics by using lower cost alternatives is nearly impossible- no short cuts, although we wish there were.

It’s good that you at least take a break from high-end audio as it was causing you much grief- hobbies are supposed to be enjoyable. Desktop audio might be a budget friendly option - there’s a significant market size. Or maybe you can build your budget through additional income to fund your hobby.

Anyway, glad you landed in a good place.

@kennyc Awww, Lol, .aren’t you the guy with a Salon2 and that blew your mind or something some time ago? Go ahead and raise the bar for everyone first, i.e. put the money where the mouth is. 4 million is what you need to spend to be a niche trendsetter perhaps (worthy of the enlightening speech you gave above). Work 6 jobs if it came down to it and show everyone what you’re made of.

Here, this is waiting for you...no shortcuts indeed.

$4,000,000 Horn System

After that, we could find out if i could beat the snot out of a ’no short-cuts’ rig with whatever i’ve got.

 

 

 

@deep_333 Ha, I wished the Salon2 would have resonated with me- it’s one the least expensive speakers that’s Stereophile rated A. In my search, I listened to the best speakers I could find, then try to replicate at home as close as possible without losing fidelity. My tastes were top of the line Magico (S5mk2, M3) and YG Acoustics (Sonja) but my wallet said differently

Went to AXPONA 2022 to demo final choices: Magico A5 vs Rockport Atria2 both sounded sub-par likely to poor room conditions.
A big thanks to Chris Thornton at Artisan Fidelity- the Vimberg Mino D sounded great but with the Diamond tweeter option I thought it was unaffordable. But after he helped me negotiate the price, I got a great deal- blew my budget if course, but what rocks my boat is high notes like violins and bells.

I’m amused that my Vimberg Mino D speakers are at the entry level of Tidal speakers- likely some trickle down tech. Likewise amused at my Constellation Inspiration electronics, they too are entry level and directly related to trickle down technology and made TAS’s top 50 bargain list.

Still trying to control spending for “sound enhancing” audiophile devices: Ethernet cables/filters/switches, fuses, outlets, demagnetizer, turntable mats, speaker feet, racks….

Also I have the curiosity itch to try the low noise floor of DS Audio optical cartridges requiring purchasing specialized phono preamp, and to try a SUT requiring purchasing a “voltage” phono preamp (I run a “current” phono).

Depending on one’s sonic goals, this hobby can be really challenging to one’s wallet.

@deep_333 , perhaps a desktop headphone/earphones setup might be rewarding. I have a xDuoo TA-30 tube DAC/amp hooked up to my laptop and run Focal Clear MG, Audeze LCD-i3. Hifiman HE-4XX, and Grado SR80. Sounds great and I haven’t tried tube rolling yet. I also have the Astell&Kern SP2000T DAP that I’m planning to try as a SS desktop dac/amp.
There are a lot of affordable options, with financial room to explore. There’s also high-end IEM (inside the ear monitors). This is a very large market with cutting edge sonics.

If you one day decide to go for high-end 2 channel again with a larger budget, it may be helpful to know what’s the “minimum” sonic quality you’d settle for and the price of those speakers and/or electronics. This would give you a set financial target to determine if worth pursuing.

@kennyc  I have some combination of stereo gear that would be considered high end by this forum''s standards perhaps..I would deem it high performance more so than "high end" because "high end" could also mean trash that's just priced high some days.

I could create the presentation of the TAD Reference with my current lower TAD model and a couple of open baffle subs. With BACCH on the front end, it seems to be about as good as stereo gets. The TAD Reference (for as long as it has been around)  is still considered a benchmark for the high end-ish sound in some circles.

But, it all loses to multichannel ime...don't know what to tell ya (Hearing is believing). A redirection of the tweaking fuel/energy for some guys could get them there, perhaps.