Anyone else excited for this Borresen subwoofer?!!!


It seems quite unique...(as one might expect from Michael B).

Borresen Subwoofer - Michael Borresen Interview

 

 

deep_333

All technical and sensationalist jargon aside...the simple ability to delay the mains, very easily accommodated in the multichannel or pro world to make life a whole lot easier...but, a freaking rarity in purist hifi.

@deep_333 In many rooms you don't need it, owing to the fact that the best way to do subs is with multiple subs so as to break up standing waves in the room.

Below 80Hz in most rooms (unless they are very large) the bass has bounced all over the room before your ear can sort out what the bass note actually is. This is because at 80Hz the wavelength is 14 feet. So its had time to bounce off the wall behind you and pass by you again before your ear can even tell the note. 

If the note is cancelling the incoming bass note when it bounces, that is called a Standing Wave and no amount of EQ can fix it because the power you put into that result gets cancelled- you simply eat up amplifier power.

That is why multiple subs works so well- because if placed asymmetrically, they can break up standing waves so you get evenly distributed bass at the listening position as well as everywhere in the room.

So a time delay doesn't win you a whole lot in this situation.

Audiokinesis has a sub called the Swarm which is 4 subs each using a 10" driver. Because 4 subs might seem a lot to many people, they are designed to sit against wall to take advantage of the room boundary effect @mijostyn mentioned earlier.  The subs are designed to roll off at 3dB/octave starting at 100Hz to compensate. This allows them to be flat to 20Hz in a compact package (1' square, 2' high). Because there are four 10" drivers, they don't need to have to have a lot of excursion unless the room is quite large. Because they are meant to be placed against the wall, they tend to be more innocuous; very easy to live with, not just in terms of space but also very easy to integrate into a system!

 

 

@phusis  and @atmasphere are making a lot of sense here. Most of the distortion created by subwoofers is not coming from their drivers, but from their enclosures, the room and poor integration. Using large and or multiple drivers that have well designed, well ventilated motors is the best way to eliminate distortion on the part of the drivers by minimizing excursions, keeping the driver's suspension well within its linear zone. After that it is all about enclosure design and construction, the layout of the room, the use of multiple units against walls and in corners and proper (digital) bass management. It is difficult to determine what crossover and slope are going to sound best in any given system. It is a trial and error process. You have to have an assortment of choices to find the right solution. This is next to impossible in the analog domain and no problem in the digital domain. In my current setup I tried 5 different solutions before finding the right one, 120Hz @ 84 dB/oct. both high and low pass filters. 120Hz works for me because the subs I use are clean up to 200Hz, they are stereo, taking 120Hz and under away from my main speakers, full range ESLs, cleans them up dramatically and increases headroom by at least 10dB. I get away with it because I can utilize a very steep digital filters which keeps the subs out of the midrange. I did not know this was going to work until I tried it. 

There are multiple methods to integrate subwoofers. Most of them I would characterize as unfortunate. Subwoofers still have a terrible reputation in some circles because of this problem. Using analog bass management, it is easier to make a system sound worse with subwoofers than better. 

OK thx was watching the YT videos about the Borenson subs and learning 
https://youtu.be/CNDTAotHHx0?si=COtP5x1-YXind9Bi

"this subwoofer design is not new or unique to Borresen..this is RiPol sub. Already Voxative, Modal Acoustics and SoundKaos make RiPol sub. This was a patented design whose patent was given away and hence these companies can build one." 

One VERY disturbing discussed fact ( in another YT video ) is the speaker cabinets are made in China and of course the issue of Uigher slave labor is an issue . Why we do not have EV cars batteries fr there In USA  but perhaps more germain,  is they are NOT even  making them yet ( the subwoofers ! ) and have no specs avail.
( good reason why i could find no price !  LOL )  

not sure I understand ( or agree) that there is some real advantage to their concept and these are more of the typical nigh end nose bleed speakers $5K-11k $ for the speakers the subs price  prob are not too far behind that is absurd silly $ IF this is the BEST sub how close can we get for less , the least $ 
saying there is any real advantage to velocity over pressure in bass delivery  of a room needs to be explained further to me please ? fast bass? 
when people who have/ had  old velodyne servo subs are dismissive of servo subs are they forgetting or ignoring that there has been progress? is your dated experience relevant ? 
dipole , bipole not a new idea &  vandersteen used 3, 10" in a downfiring sub 
very few will ever buy these Borreson so largely irrelevant but we could make DIY kit copy if they really work . 
I recently heard Allison acoustics years ago built a great subwoofer using their 8" woofers in a push-pull arrangement kind of like the AL speakers but cannot find any pictures -maybe it never got beyond prototype ? 
i imagine I would get most of that Borrenson sub performance  w/ some GR research open baffle servo subs DIY kits  single double or triple and possibly affordable .as the enclosures are the problem is it better to just have none ? or minimal   . 

 

@quickjack1234 Check out Magico's Titan subwoofer, then check out Martin Logan's Balanced Force 212 and 210. These three are the best commercial subs out there. They all still need a proper active crossover.