Linn Klimax DS. How good is it?

Ok, so I did finally go for an audition and placed a deposit at local dealer to get the Klimax home for a weekend tryout. Very nice guy and excellent service and advice.

Was the unit good? Yes very good, I think I can even say excellent. Did I go for it...? No. I did extensive listening sessions. THe unit was well burned in as per dealers saying. TO begin with, I think my Esoteric is better sounding. Very different sounds though. Linn is very very detailed, (as detailed but not more than the Esoteric), very very fast, precise, almost analytical. In all those fields I don't think one player exceeded the other. Maybe the Linn was a bit more analytical, in a good sense, but if so only marginally.

In terms of scene, also as good as Esoteric; excellent, although not better neither. Open wide, good 3D placement, separation and location... all great, very much as Esoteric.

Now where did it failed, in my opinion and in my system? In "weight", texture and bass extension and presence (although bass was precise and tight). Sound was just too thin and texture of instruments and vocals were just short of expectations, and not up to Esoteric performance. Dynamics were there, but the above made the listening experience less engaging.

Do not get me wrong. It was not by a huge margin, nor the Linn was bad at all. But it was surely audible. You could listen to a track on the Linn and say, excellent. Than you paly it right away on the Esoteric and you could hear the difference with not too much problems.

ALso did A/B blind test and the results were the same.

It was a bit of a disapointment, cos I really wanted this unit to be a killer given convenience of use, hi rez downliads and the like. Bit I did have to admit, at least in my case it made no sense to go for it. I would likely find myself using the Esoterc most of the time short afterwards.

maybe it has to do with system synergy, personal tastes or a mix of it. Who knows. Also maybe listenig was too short only 3 days, although I spend long hours each day, to the joy of my wife... Also the fact that I have Synergistic Research holograph D on Esoteric and the stock on Linn did not help, but that can not be fixed since the Linn won't accept any aftermarket PC....

Anyway just thought I could share my findings and experience with you if they are of help to any.Others may have different experiences or findings, but after all, that is what this is all about:synergy with rest of system, room et all, personal tastes... In my case, I can say this is not the finest source out there, as per Linns claims. Esoteric X01-D2 is better, and surely there a many others out there as well. But it is a very good source. Just do not feel good enough for that money moreoever considering is only "half" a solution (no transport mechanism, so for the money it should deliver more on the DAC than similar priced complete transport DAC players.

Will keep searching for a high end streaming solution that can beat my Esoteric, ideally on an ethernet interface.

Perrew, did some search on the APL you advised. Initially it looked good, with great reviews and the like. But then found a bunch of forums and people who say they send this aparently one man company, money and units and never got back neither one of them for years! Now not sure if that is the case or not, but there are many many many of this claims all over. I think I will not take the risk of shipping such an expensive unit, to a company with this reputation, and of course not a dime in advance.... Too much risk regardless of it being true or not. I guess your experience is different, and again I have no experience with this company at all, so can not say anything good or bad. I was just shocked of all hte sh*t I read out there in the web... Is all over the place., really.

Eelii08,

my experience with the Klimax DS was similar, I was very interested in aquiring one but after hearing it not so more. I compared it with Esoteric X-01Ltd, Weiss Jason/Medea, MBLs big combo 1611E/1621 which were all better imho, some cost more and some less. Also the Esoteric can play SACD.

Regarding APL I honestly understand your reluctance after reading on the web. My experience was I found out about the company after seeing a member here had his NWO listed so I started researching what it was. There were glowing reviews interspersed with problems in custom relations.
My own analysis at the time boiled down to that Alex had taken on to many upgrades and sold to many players at the same time, which resulted in big delays for some customers, which then understandably got quite upset from having to wait extended time for their machines. Anyway I was looking for the best sound available so I took the risk and put my money down for a machine. While I was waiting for it Alex had done more research and had a new upgrade in the coming so I ended up waiting a year before the player arrived. Wait was long, but well worth it. I have since upgraded the player one more time to the NWO-4.0-SE which is the current version. All outstanding orders that Alex had have been filled also he supports his old machines that are not in current production. The nice thing when you buy an APL NWO is that it is future upgradable, you will never need to buy a new player. I jsut wanted you to be aware of what a nice machine there is out there that has all the features you were looking for and with sound nothing else is close to. The one man company is comprised of several engineers now. If I were you I would shoot Alex a mail at alex(at)aplhifi(dot)com just to hear what he has to say about the player, hes very friendly and desriptive in his explanations. Good Luck!

Let's start a topic - ETHERNET vs AES

Pros/cons? Are packets streamed via TCP/IP better or worse than AES? If you transfer music via ethernet, will the "bits" arrive at the DAC fully intact with no deterioration? If so, then theoretically it should be the same?

Changster, I'm not an expert really, but I've done some reading. Seems Ethernet has some advantages.

First you can have your server far, far away from the DAC (like in another room even if you want). Distance does not affect the data sent, since it's own design is for such an specification. The transfer of data from the hard-drive over Ethernet using TCP-IP ensures the integrity of the data delivered to the DACs. it is easy to configure a totally silence system. All you need to place is the DAC at your rack.

According to Linn webpage, on the subject:

The clock used in the DACs provides the master timing reference to the entire digital path.
It is worth noting that this architecture where the data is ‘pulled’ from the network using the clock at the DAC is inherently better than systems where the data is transported by SPDIF or USB links, where the DAC has to ‘lock’ its clock to that at the sending end.

I've read you can achieve this with some short of USB but at a cost. You need your PC or apple near, yo need extra hardware on the computer, configuration an the like.

Also the cost of the cables are important. A Cat 5+ cable is all you need. Even if you want to go Cat 6, these are quite cheap.

Again the above is not from personal experience or particular knowledge, so if anyone knows better, let us know. Personally only have done streaming using ethernet. Now this is very very easy and convenient I can say, and sounds great. Just plug in the ethernet CAT 6 cable into the DAC, turn on your server (NAS or regular PC or MAC, over Linux, WHS or whatever), wherever this is located, and you are set to go.

What I do not understand is why there are only a very limited number of manufactures who do not include ethernet streaming on their devices. For what I know, Linn, Logitech with Transporter and the rest of family, Sonos and not too many more. For sure none of the popular or regarded a high end DAC manufacturers. They seem to prefer any other alternative, you name it.

I wonder if we will start to see these kind of solutions become more popular among these kind of brands in the near future.

Perrew, thanks for sharing your experience. I do think, if the unit from Alex is as good as some claim, looking also at the specs, the fact it can now do streaming wireless and the mods he seems to do, like 10 32 bits DAC per channel of very high quality, upgrades on outputs etc, I would love to have such an upgrade on my esoteric. But the fact you had to wait a full year (WOW) for this to get it done, does for sure turn me down. How could you wait a full year, with the money gone, and I assume your unit also gone and not gone nuts? The Esoteric is 16.000 euros, plus whatever you paid for the upgrade. That is a lot of money to have it on the hook for a whole year while reading all kind of things over the web. I guess it comes down to personal views and perceptions.

Eelii08,

its better than the claims, Ive heard all the big name digital players(and many a top vinyl). Its the best Ive heard! It has 20dacs/channel and an amazing output stage.
I waited a year yes, but Im a patient guy and if I had been afraid of losing the money I could always have flewn over and collect it. Anyway the long wait emanated partly from the new version that was in the coming so had I decided to wait less I could have had the older version.
The current production setup that APL have are much improved an the wait time is far far less.
It now works like this you order the player and ship it to APL, during shipping, APL will prepare all the stuff needed for the upgrade including the DAC tower which is VERY time consuming to build, 1 week, and when your player arrives its another week for upgrades and testing all thin gs and making sure its tip top, and then back to you. So you are looking at approx. three weeks without a machine from when you decide to order, even shorter if you go with express shipping. UPS is the best company for shipping.
But as I said shoot APL an email and youll know all the ins and outs, no strings attached. Good Luck! The Sonics are GOOOD! :-)