Thiel Owners

Amp designs vary greatly in this area and likewise does the nature of the sonic malaise.Amp designs vary greatly in this area and likewise does the nature of the sonic malaise.

Sonic malaise, what a great phrase :)

Some Apogees (Scintillas?) were basically one-ohm loads with dips down to .5 ohm if I recall.

It sounds like CS-5 are difficult to drive in the low frequencies. Are they bi-ampable?

What amps did the Thiel factory use?

devinplombier

What size listening room do you have? Ceilings? 

I'll share a story with you.

in 2001-2002 I went to Nashville to Nichals to audition the CS 7.2. They had them mated with McIntosh Killowatt amps. The salesman was conservative with the volume. I gave him a CD I brought and asked for the remote.

Once track was playing I hit the volume so it was playing at a decent volume around 92-95db. About 30 seconds in the red light started flashing on the McIntosh amps as they were clipping. 

I politely thanked the saleman for his time and left. From this dealer I went straight to Thiel in Lexington. I listened to the same Cs 7.2 but this time with Krell FPB 700 CX amp.It was a completely different sounding speaker. 

Lesson,  the amps are crucial with the big Thiels. 

My reason to push the speakers and get currentt through them is to know the amp is up to the task and if I have enough dynamic headroom to handle transient peaks. 

devinplombier

I don't know much about the Apogee line across the board. There are other high-end brands and models - Wilson Watts come to mind - that are have treacherously abrupt impedance swings with sub-1 ohm bottoms . . . and advertising that claims them easily driven. Thiel speakers present extremely resistive, non-reactive loads. But since their impedance is (too) low across the board, many amps just can't deliver the juice to drive them well.

Duramax's advice is spot on. Listen to demanding material at high volume and assess the enjoyment / naturalness of your response. I find it less than productive to try to analyze and describe the nature of the failure(s) because there are so many interacting factors and such academic understanding isn't the goal. Finding worthy ancillary equipment is your goal.

duramax747

My room is approx 32x16 with a 12’ listening triangle. My speakers are positioned halfway along the long walls, so about 15’ from the front wall.

Re your Nashville auditions, I would hazard a guess that someone at the first shop mistakenly wired the Thiels to the 8 ohm taps of the McIntoshs.

and tomthiel

I agree 100% with the importance of adequate amplification. I got my Classé monoblocks to drive my Infinity RS-II, themselves interim speakers to tide me over until I get my "perfect" ones (the RS-II are great speakers btw and, despite the fact that I’ve probably spent more time so far working on them than listening to them, I’m growing quite fond of them).

I am prepared to sell the Classés and get the amps to match whatever speakers I get eventually.

jafant

Thank you for the tip regarding the 3 CS5i in Florida.

I would consider buying speakers online from a well regarded seller, though I would much prefer to buy locally here in the Pacific Northwest so that I can audition prior to purchase.

I also want to say what a great source of high quality information this thread is! Thank you for creating and moderating it.

tomthiel

Thank You for the information on models CS5 and CS5i loudspeakers. A nice Thiel history lesson as well.  Although I have not heard big Apogee loudspeakers, I can comment on model Slant 8.  The Slant 8 and Thiel CS 2.4 are very close in presentation and sound. In a shoot out, the CS 2.4 wins as the speaker has better Bass output via its passive radiator. Both speakers exhibit excellent mid and upper range frequencies.

Happy Listening!