Better DAC or better Streamer


Hello,

Which is better upgrade between the two?

1.  Chord DAVE DAC.

2.  Nagra Streamer. 

I am currently using Chord M Scaler with Hugo TT2 DAC.  Also using Astell&Kern SP3000 DAP for streaming the music.

Thank you,

 

 

eddy1

I suppose you could make the same argument for any solid state or a tube amplifier then, yes? So once someone gets to that 2-3K level, there are no further benefits to be had?

Yes I agree on the face of it, we could make that comparison/ argument but it would be a flawed one. When you consider what a streamer does in the chain, there are profound differences between the function of a Tube or SS amp in how their internal components reproduce the signal. A streamer goes nowhere near a music signal, it just hands off a stream of data its collected from a server.

Please forgive me following my maybe flawed or inadequate knowledge, but an amplifier is quite a different animal in a audio reproduction chain.(e.g) I suppose you could define it as the pre-amp and or power amp is processing the actual music and where as the streamer is collecting one’s and zeros.

For instance, of course you will know, in a push pull, transformer driven tube amplifier, there are many differences and quality indicators apparent when using better components, such as quality driver and power tubes which have an undeniable measurable and audible impact, if say a tube amp is capacitor coupled, the choice of cap’s and values will both profoundly affect the sound quality and signature, and there are more we could add and therefore there is a logical correlation between components ad sound quality, although many high end brands milk it by applying snake oil prices to HIFi gear more generally.

I have always thought of streamers as not even powerful PC’s, but as packet receivers, running bespoke software to allow us humans to understand the recompiled files via a rudimentary GUI.

For the uninitiated of which there are probably not many on our forum, so I will keep it respectfully short. When we select a track to play, the streamer communicates with the streaming service’s server to request the music file, the music file is transmitted from the server to the streamer in small units called data packets. Each packet contains a portion of the music file along with information about how to reassemble the data

The streamer simply receives these packets and reassembles them into a continuous stream of digital audio data. Just like a PC. this process is managed via industry standard protocols such as TCP (Transmission Control Protocol) and IP (Internet Protocol), which ensure that packets are delivered in the correct order and without errors. It then says over to you "DAVE" turn this little lot into music and that’s all the streamer does.

What it does is very well known in the computing world and the internet does send data packets at a staggering rate, approaching 0.5 zettabytes daily and all pretty much with extremely low error rates.

The streamer is then a after-all, just a singe application a focused but less noisy PC Its not even a "source" using the definition we all understand, It isn’t an all rounder it has but has but one job, collect data and pass it to a DAC.

So I find it incomprehensible to speculate that a streamer can have as much or as some have said more influence of the systems Sonic’s as a DAC.

If it’s not data compiling or error correction that defines its "better" sound as they all do that job and the as part of the defined internet protocols or its not a special "buffer"circuit, is it processor and or RAM speed? If someone has the answers I would genuinely, really like to know how..

As I have said I believe there are better ways to build streamers as some brands do very well but only to a point. As long as they collect compile and hand off like they should and noise is controlled, why would we expect anything more other than fancy App’s and or GUI’s or billet aluminium chassis etc..

Since the original questioner asked what would be the better upgrade, I believe it to be by any measure the DAVE DAC. It leaves some space for enjoyable experimentation to try a couple well regarded inexpensive streamers, some mid price and one or two "High End" ones. Hear for yourself via a resolving high quality DAC and make your own mind up.

I would just qualify the answer I gave as assuming you would be looking to use a standalone streamer with the DAVE, if not then of course, moving from a DAP to a decent streamer is the first option

No matter what you upgrade, DAC or streamer, you will get an improvement in sound quality. However in your case @eddy1 you will have a bottleneck in your streamer and you will be upgrading it soon after. The SP2000 is similar to streaming with iPad - there’s plenty of room for improvement there. 

Probably, since you’re asking, it is only a question of which you upgrade first.  I’d say go for the streamer first and then get that signal as clean as possible and if you’re still not happy, go for the DAC. I noticed a huge improvement when I went to a Grimm MU1, connected via Ethernet cable, with the cable running through DX Engineering ISO-PLUS Ethernet RF Filters and using Puron power filters in the same outlet as the router.  There was no audible difference between the MU1 and SACD.  The cool thing about Grimm’s DACs is that they give the ability to up sample to either 2x or 4x.  To my ears, it doesn’t get much better than the 4x up sampling.  Links to the filters are below:  

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-iso-plus-2?srsltid=AfmBOoqNt2mAvvVq9e-uoloXY2x0rsNUwqENt5oeOX8jVwxFjIpgkZzL

https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/puron-ac-power-conditioner/

Happy listening!