ARE SUPER EXPENSIVE STREAMERS REALLY WORTH IT


Folks I am confused why some streamers need to be so eye wateringly expensive. I appreciate the internal basics need to be covered such as a high quality, low noise power supply and a decent processor speed etc..  but that is not rocket science.

So my question is could a decent streamer outputting its data stream via I2S to a good quality DAC receiving the I2S stream be a more cost effective way of rivalling let’s say a streamer costing 5k upwards.

I have heard and digested the argument for expensive streamers quality being centred around the management of the data timing via a quality clock circuit but there are very reasonable in relative terms, DAC’s out there that have dual super high quality temp controlled clocks within, at least the equal or arguably even better than the say a 5k streamer with some sporting dual high end DAC chips etc.

So could utilizing a good quality streamer and a separate high-quality DAC connected via I2S indeed offer significant benefits and potentially reduce the need for a very expensive streamer.

I say this with the knowledge that I2S is designed to preserve and separate the Signals so avoiding the timing issues connected with multiplexing. I2S (Inter-IC Sound) separates the music signal from the timing signal, potentially eliminating jitter or at the very least greatly reducing the possibility for the pesky music killing jitter which we all could agree would lead to improving overall sound quality.

Wouldn’t this separation ensure that the timing information is more accurately preserved, even when compared to a high price streamer, leading as clean or cleaner and more precise audio data output. With I2S, the DAC can use its own high-quality clock/s to synchronize the data, which will reduce jitter and improve sound quality.

Could this possibly mean that even if the streamer has a less advanced clock, the DAC’s superior clock can take over, ensuring best  performance.

So bang for buck would it not be advantageous to investing in a high-quality DAC and using a good but not necessarily top-tier streamer to achieve excellent sound quality without the need for an extremely expensive streamer. Surely the DAC’s performance will play a crucial role in the final sound quality.

Play gentle with the pile on please....................

nubiann

Having chewed my way through and taken on board the many interesting, informed, passionate and sometimes provocatively forthright opinions from within our community, I have been through a weekend of introspection, weighing up what I have learned and asking some questions of myself. I reached a few at the very least tenuous conclusions and knowing that there are many here with far more detailed knowledge and experience I will still risk sharing my thoughts with you all.

My reasoning seems to make sense at least to me but does it align with common practices common to higher-end audio setups?

Instead of following the I2S yellow brick road, I may now focus more on a synergistic combination of attributes approach but since mine is not a limitless budget I still need to find a balance between budget constraints and the relevant talents of the two components. In doing so, I have to be prepared for this particular voyage of exploration to conclude at the same port.

Further Questions & Answers (generated via maybe a still emerging appreciation of this whole new world).

Q: Could the answer to how much I spend on a Streamer vs a DAC be about a combination of one having a femto clock and the other having one or more OCXO clocks?

A: Yes, there could very well be?

Q: Is there an inherently better reason for utilizing femto in a Streamer

A: It seems accepting femto clocks are better at reducing Phase Noise which is more common in streamers as they have more fundamentals in common with a PC than other components in the audio chain. If a streamer has a high-quality clock (like a “femto” clock), it can provide a stable and precise signal to the DAC. This can reduce jitter at the source, however, the DAC still needs to re-clock the incoming signal to ensure accurate digital-to-analogue conversion.

Q: Why OCXO Clocks could be a good choice for DAC’s?

A: Temperature Stability: OCXO clocks provide excellent long-term stability due to their temperature-controlled environment, minimizing frequency drift as well as further reducing jitter, an OCXO clock could help the DAC produce a more detailed and natural sound, with better imaging and soundstage.

Q: Will the DAC Re-clock any incoming data from the streamer?

A: The DAC’s clock/s are crucial for re-clocking the signal it receives. Even if the streamer has a good clock, the DAC needs to ensure the timing is precise during the conversion process.

This means that even if the streamer’s clock is not as good, the DAC can still ensure high-quality audio output.

Q: Could both Clocks Matter?

A: Yes, a good clock (Femto better) in the streamer helps minimize noise & Jitter introduced at the source, potentially affecting the signal before it reaches the DAC.

A high-quality DAC with one or more OCXO clocks will re-clock the incoming data from the streamer, further reducing jitter and ensuring precise timing particularly influencing the digital-to-analogue conversion

Temperature Stability: OCXO clocks provide excellent long-term stability due to their temperature-controlled environment, which can be beneficial for maintaining consistent audio performance.

Temperature Stability: OCXO clocks provide excellent long-term stability due to their temperature-controlled environment, which can be beneficial for maintaining consistent audio performance.

Q: Does System Synergy Count here?

A: The consensus strongly suggests just as most parts of the chain, best performance is often achieved when both the streamer and DAC have high-quality clocks, ensuring minimal noise and jitter throughout the entire signal path, will lead to better audio quality. How large and consequential such improvements are and how they are quantified is not easy; I guess its system and probably subjective listening dependent at this level. I cannot envisage an opportunity to conduct such an in-depth auditioning opportunity. So I will need to narrow down any list by a combination of factors not all listening experience with my system.

If my budget allows, my approach may well be a femto clock in the streamer to handle initial signal processing and an OCXO clock/s in the DAC for final re-clocking, leveraging the strengths of both types of clocks in within their respective environments.

Overriding practical considerations

Budget Allocation: Depending on my budget, I may still need to prioritize spending more on the DAC, as I still maintain no one has debunked its almost paramount importance as more influential for the final audio quality.

However, I will look at streamers very closely and try to invest in a very good streamer with a femto clock, strong Power supply electronics and thoughtful design, because I now recognize it can also make a significant difference in the overall performance.

No offense intended but the length of your reply and it’s style smell of AI, am I correct?

No offense intended but the length of your reply and it’s style smell of AI, am I correct?

No offence taken Bruce.

I have been overwhelmed by the extent of engagement on the subject of my enquiry. So I used AI as a cross referencing tool as I waded through the depth of knowledge deployed in response.

I am a Sony Trained engineer so my "indoctrination" into the Japanese way and tendency to scrutinize is almost second nature.

I am also a global quality Auditor, so my style of writing can come across in an overly logical fashion or somewhat formal report style but throughout my dialogue here, my deductions and questions generated are very much my own curiosity, as dumb as they might seem to some expert contributors.

Most people have been understanding here and for this kindness, I am very grateful. The advice has helped and tempered my over enthusiasm.

I have now shortlisted some streaming products from Aurender and Lumin, maybe I might add HI FI Rose also. I am still looking at options for DAC’s that maybe a possible synergistic match for these products as well as the rest of my system.

Are you tending toward AI integration more in your daily life?

Thanks for your comments anyway.

Gerald.

 

@nubiann  A well thought out response. Good luck with your search.

Many thanks, nice if you to say so. Whatever the decision,  I will come back and say what I opted for but I wont review because there will be a danger of confirmation bias no doubt.