Looking for advise regarding Rogue M180’s
Last week a friend gifted me a pair of Rogue M180’s. They were sold as 180’s and I received them from the original owner. Im guessing them to be 10-12 years old. They were used when first purchased for about 5 years sparingly. Since then they have resided on a flat dolly in a spare bedroom. The amps still have the original Phillips ECG 5751 and 5814A’s installed. The original EH KT 90’s are loose in a box with an octet of low hour Gold Lion KT-77’s . Years back when in use the owner contacted Rogue and stated they were too powerful for his room size and speaker selection. Rogue responded by recommending the GL KT77’s and suggesting that he could also lower the bias from 40ma to 30ma. I was provided the supporting emails dated September 2019. Here is my situation followed by my questions. I currently have a low power single ended system with Zu speakers. Second, the owner stated one might have a hum, but was not sure. He’s on his second complete system since and has a room full of gear he’s lost interest in and his memory is vague. Also back then he had power issues with his provider and stated they installed a new transformer on the street. So my questions are first, checking for any hum. My intent is to take a single amp and connect one JBL 4312 to it. Install the KT77’s, plug it in and listen for a hum and bias the tubes. Do I need the input open or shorted ? Or something else ? Second, the 12AX7’s being replaced by the 5751. I see there’s a mu of 70 Vs 100 with the 12AX7. Does that effect the overall output power of the amp or just change tone and distortion? FWIT I have 6-7 pairs of NOS Telefunken 12AU7’s but zero 12AX7’s. My intent is to check for hum without causing any damage. If a hum exists, I’ll ship to Rogue. In the short term if I’m successful, I’ll test drive with my existing Rogue RP-1, the JBL 4312A’s that are mint and the 26” Sound Anchor stands I have with them. And I’d like to get some Telefunkens to put in the 12AX7 positions. After that, there’s a pristine Rogue Hera that’s been inspected and re tubed by Rogue that I’ll ask to purchase before I start looking for speakers worthy of the pairing. Also I emailed Rogue for support a week ago and have not received a response. Thanks in advance for any feedback and my apologies for grammatical spaghetti, but I’m limited to an IPhone. Cheers , Mike B.
@buellrider97 Happy to hear of your communications with Rogue. They got back to me quickly for the three times I had questions on the Apollos. As for paying for the Dark upgrade, compare the cost of updating your amps to Dark vs. selling your amps once they are running well, and seek a good deal on a used pair of Dark. Here is one example, from a dealer no less. Notice the Make Offer option. |
@jafox , Good morning, I appreciate your idea. The bad amp definitely needs repair. I had it at best playing but with an underlying distortion that sounded like a bad driver tube. But it’s more than that because when I swapped out tubes and restarted it, the amp went bonkers and started screeching and popping at about 90 db. It scared my dogs it was so bad. It happened 3 times, 2 of which I was on speaker phone with Rogue’s staff. A ballpark figure to fix it ( guesstimate ) is about $500. A Dark upgrade would negate the repair charge and run me $2500. As great minds think alike I’ll get the Dark upgrade. Since the amps were free, it pencils out better than the ones you suggested. Plus mine are silver and match my system and excluding the current issue are in excellent condition. Cheers , Mike. |
Hey just saw your thread, Sorry to hear of your prob, I had something similar with a 120 few years ago They fixed it promptly. I have the Apollo Darks, As far as updating to the Darks I would Hold off Thats $$ and not a day and night difference. Maybe sell yours and pick up a good deal on some darks, Actually the apollos have been coming up for great prices All the best >im a rogue have had the 120's 150's Zeus and apollo's Good luck to you |
@buellrider97 Oof, sorry about the issue with your M180. Guess I jumped the gun giving the "all clear". Yeah, Rogue can take care of ’em. @hiend2 brought up an interesting point. I’ve owned both Apollo (og non-Dark) and then Apollo Dark (superseded my non-Darks). Frankly, I got exactly the same enjoyment out of both. I could’ve (and probably should’ve) happily stuck with og-Apollos. They had the same sonic DNA. And I’m not sure I always like the sonic effect of exotic parts (caps, resistors). He’s also right about Zeus and Apollos going for bargains on used markets. They’re hard to move, because they occupy a tier above Rogue’s normal market segment, shipping hassles, and because most audiophiles get nervous about that many power tubes (not me lol). M180’s on the used market don’t go for much less $, and their used prices have been relatively stable for a very long time. Most buyers cap out at M180s for Rogue, before they move on to other (more expensive) brands. That said, everyone’s different - my buddy upgraded his Zeus (non-Dark) to my Apollo Darks, and says it’s been a substantial upgrade for him (Vandersteen 5a Carbons). Maybe M180’s also need the "Dark" upgrades more than Apollos did? I still kinda wish I’d held only my og-Apollos, for as cheap as they go. I sold mine for $4K and that was 5 - 6 years ago. |
I can go cheap and fix one for $500. That leaves the other unchecked. So if do both say $1k. They were built in 2012, and I’m thinking fresh parts that are also an upgrade is prudent and worthwhile. I’ll probably ask the previous owner to sell me the Hera, and it’s been to the shop, serviced and re tubed. Also they were obtained at dealers cost in 2012, and I anticipate a bargain price. And with all the original packaging, I’ll surely break even if I sell down the road. That being said, what speakers mate well for Classic Rock in a room 20x30 with a 15’ ceiling ? Thanks again gentlemen. |
