Your journey with lower-watt tube amps -- Can a kit be good enough?


Looking for stories about your low-watt amp journeys.

Here's the situation: I have new speakers, 97 db. Trying them with lower watt tube amps (45/211, 300b, etc) seems generally wise. I am attempting to borrow some from audiophiles in the area. 

The horizon beyond trying these things involves actually buying some. I'm looking at a budget limit of about $5k.

Curious as to folks' experience with lower-watt amp kits vs. those of good makers (e.g. Dennis Had, etc.).

If you have any thoughts about the following, I'd be interested:

Did you start out with a kit and then get dissatisfied? Why?

Did you compare kits vs. pre-made and find big differences?

Did you find you could get the equivalent level of quality in a kit for much less than the same pre-made version? How about kit vs. used?

Also: did you find there was a difference between "point to point wiring" vs. "PCB" in these various permutations?

I realize that there are good kits and bad ones, good pre-made amps and bad ones. I'm hoping you'll be comparing units which seem at comparable levels of quality and price-points.

Thanks.

128x128hilde45

Yes this Marantz 8B sounded more clear then McIntosh MC30. But despite Marantz bass wasn’t bad, MC30 bass was on the other league. It was also a big difference in complex music reproduction. 8B was good on very simple music but the sound became muddy and congested with bigger number of instruments and voices. On the other hand, the complex music wasn’t an issue for MC30.

@alexberger Sounds to me as if the modifications didn't have the desired effect. Feedback is a bit more complicated than it might look on a schematic. The Marantz 8B has a more sophisticated feedback design than most amps you see from that era; IMO/IME its unlikely that a technician 'adjusting' it would be successful in getting the amp to actually perform better.

@hilde45 Thanks!

Hi @atmasphere ,

 Power supplies of all vintage tube amplifiers from 50-60x look so miserable with such small capacitors.  It is especially true for stereo amplifiers when PS is used for both channels in parallel without any separation. I can say for sure such a PS will not work for a SET amplifier without feedback even if it is just 2 watt power.   

How does it work in all these vintage amplifiers? Does feedback make them less sensitive to PS or the reason is the push-pull topology?

Hi @invalid ,

Yes most of vintage amplifiers use chokes in power supply.

But they use very small capacitors in B+.

The issue with small capacitors is not the 120Hz noise from AC , but voltage stability during playing of load and complex music.

Nice blog post on SETs recently, here.

A few excerpts. It’s not a long post and worth a read:

"The SET’s very existence calls into question fundamental beliefs and assumptions we routinely make about technical performance, sound quality, and the correlation between them. These amplifiers expose a crack in the edifice of audio engineering theory that is based on the conviction that an amplifier can be judged by its technical specifications or measured performance....

This paradox arises because the technical measurements that attempt to quantify amplifier sound are simply inadequate and incomplete....Predicting an amplifier’s sound quality or judging it to be good or bad based on existing criteria is like looking at a few still images from a movie and then attempting to discern from those static photos the movie’s plot, characterizations, dramatic arc, and meaning.

The SET exposes the fact that certain aspects of amplifier performance are not quantified by the traditional measurement arsenal....

Some will suggest that listeners are merely responding to the SET’s euphonic distortion—that the SET sounds good because of its distortion rather than despite it. There’s no question that the largely second-harmonic distortion component of an SET is much more sonically benign than the upper-order distortion components of Class AB solid-state amplifiers. But a first-rate SET amplifier’s magical qualities go far beyond this simplistic interpretation. The SET’s resolution of inner detail that, singularly, conjures up a strikingly vivid picture of the instrument creating the sound is certainly not merely a euphonic second-harmonic distortion artifact....

This essay is neither a renunciation of all amplifiers other than SETs nor an evangelical campaign for the world to embrace the single-ended-triode amplifier. SETs are limited in the loudspeakers they can drive, exhibit other practical drawbacks, and are certainly not for every listener...."

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/the-single-ended-triode-paradox/