Good afternoon gentlemen and thanks for the additional comments. When I was on the phone will Bill at Rogue, he commented that the ST-100 had the greatest performance increase from the Dark option. Prior to receiving the M-180’s I was eying either the ST-100 or the Quicksilver KT’s. However when I inquired about the M-180’s, they were graciously loaded into my truck and I was sent on my way. I’m sure the freshened up Hera can be had for a song, so I’ll just roll with the flow. My thought on the Dark upgrade is, I love Telefunkens and have multiple pairs already with the exception of the 12AX7’s. Also the Cardas terminals are not a must either. I’m going to ask if I can purchase the Dark upgrade minus the tubes and the binding posts. I have a Quad of G73-R Tekefunken 12AU7’s and a quad of Siemens silver plate 12AU’7’s. It will be interesting to see if that’s doable. As far as speakers, my room is 20’ across the front wall. It is 28’ deep and the back is partially open to the kitchen and two hallways. The left wall is 14’ and the right wall is 11’. The ceiling is peaked at about 18’ and runs the entire length front to rear. I can place the speaker baffles as far off the front wall as need be. I have no idea of SPL, and I’m ignorant of tubes Vs SS in regards to room pressure. The previous owner loaned me a Modwright KWI 200 and my JBL’s on 26” Sound Anchor stands were able to shake the room. FWIT I didn’t like the JBL’s with SS and even with tubes they’re just not musical. They’re meant for studio mixing, but at the moment I have them. After I get speakers they can go to my brothers home mixing room. My current system is perfect for listening alone or with my wife. The imaging is excellent, the soundstage is wide, strings and vocals are sweet. It’s almost like headphones as the sweet spot is perfect for one. I can listen to Diane Krall and feel like she’s in the room. However with the M-180’s I’d like to feel the music in my body when I listen to Pink Floyd. When I get this up and going I’m going to cue up my MFSL copy of Supertramp Crime of the Century and share with my neighbors. I hope my limited ability to articulate my wants is understandable. Respectfully, Mike B.
Looking for advise regarding Rogue M180’s
Last week a friend gifted me a pair of Rogue M180’s. They were sold as 180’s and I received them from the original owner. Im guessing them to be 10-12 years old. They were used when first purchased for about 5 years sparingly. Since then they have resided on a flat dolly in a spare bedroom. The amps still have the original Phillips ECG 5751 and 5814A’s installed. The original EH KT 90’s are loose in a box with an octet of low hour Gold Lion KT-77’s . Years back when in use the owner contacted Rogue and stated they were too powerful for his room size and speaker selection. Rogue responded by recommending the GL KT77’s and suggesting that he could also lower the bias from 40ma to 30ma. I was provided the supporting emails dated September 2019. Here is my situation followed by my questions. I currently have a low power single ended system with Zu speakers. Second, the owner stated one might have a hum, but was not sure. He’s on his second complete system since and has a room full of gear he’s lost interest in and his memory is vague. Also back then he had power issues with his provider and stated they installed a new transformer on the street. So my questions are first, checking for any hum. My intent is to take a single amp and connect one JBL 4312 to it. Install the KT77’s, plug it in and listen for a hum and bias the tubes. Do I need the input open or shorted ? Or something else ? Second, the 12AX7’s being replaced by the 5751. I see there’s a mu of 70 Vs 100 with the 12AX7. Does that effect the overall output power of the amp or just change tone and distortion? FWIT I have 6-7 pairs of NOS Telefunken 12AU7’s but zero 12AX7’s. My intent is to check for hum without causing any damage. If a hum exists, I’ll ship to Rogue. In the short term if I’m successful, I’ll test drive with my existing Rogue RP-1, the JBL 4312A’s that are mint and the 26” Sound Anchor stands I have with them. And I’d like to get some Telefunkens to put in the 12AX7 positions. After that, there’s a pristine Rogue Hera that’s been inspected and re tubed by Rogue that I’ll ask to purchase before I start looking for speakers worthy of the pairing. Also I emailed Rogue for support a week ago and have not received a response. Thanks in advance for any feedback and my apologies for grammatical spaghetti, but I’m limited to an IPhone. Cheers , Mike B.
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The plot thickens ! 😆 I was contacted yesterday by the original owner and apparently he tossed all the packing materials. At least he has the cages. The good news is Rogue sells the complete packing units at $60. each. I haven’t priced it out yet as Bill is out of the office this week, but I can get a quote for a partial Dark upgrade. My logic is I already have the tubes and I’m not that concerned about the upgraded binging posts. So I’m thinking of upgrading the boards, which gets them both restored to better than new. Any additional comments are appreciated. Regards , Mike B. |
Nice, factory packing for $60 each is well worth it! Many audio companies charge HUNDREDS for the same quality of packing. Example: boxes for my Clearaudio Master Innovation table cost almost $900, ugh. This is a key advantage of Rogue - they won’t try to rip you off. I previously neglected to weigh in on speakers. Well, I’ve been a Tannoy DC (dual-concentric drivers) fan for 20 years and that’s what I’ve used, across several models. I haven’t tried the new Chinese-made stuff, but amazing sounding Scottish Tannoys can be had for good deals on the used market, if shipping can be figured out. Even some of those late 90s - 2000s models (including pro models) are bangers. There are a few models I’d avoid like the oddball DC10A, which were voiced wrong imo (bright). You can also look at Fyne but the deals on older Tannoy are great. The DC drivers come in "tulip" (ceramic) and "pepperpot" (alnico) variants, with the latter being much more expensive, but the tulips are great in their own right. Tulips are usually better behaved in treble and well-balanced overall; pepperpot/alnicos have a super vibrant midrange. There are lots of popular vintage Tannoys too (all pepperpots), which I never waded into. Fyne has made a new version of the DC they call "iso-flare" and I haven’t heard it. The few Tannoy-Fyne comparisons out there usually prefer Fyne (possibly upgrade bias) but also attribute them as being "more detailed", which honestly sends me running in the other direction lol. As usual, we just need to hear for ourselves to make sense of it. Sonically the pairing of Tannoys with any Rogue tube amp, and Hera preamp, is excellent. The newer RP-9 preamp's treble was not a good mix with pepperpot tweeters imo (too much, ouch, etc). Tannoys are moderately efficient so the high gain of Rogue tubes does come into play, but I’ve always tolerated it. I also hear the pairing of Vandersteen with Rogues is superb! |
Been following your thread. Good luck to you and rogue service is great. As you found out on the phone call they take ll this stuff very seriously. I have an issue with the old 120 put a output tube in incorrectly due to a broken off center pin. So I smoked the one amp I called rogue they directed me what to look for and I actually fixed the amp with a couple of resistors, I sent the amp to them for a checkout of course Ivve been thru the line 120, 150, Zeus, now appllos, I upgraded the Caps to the Dark level here and Am very Happy with them, Rogue will gey you there whatever you choose, Great crew there Really. Interesting of what they find and you decisions are, cant wait to hear. |
@hiend2 , Thanks for you’re input. I started to pull the cover on the one that’s having issues just to have a look. Unfortunately the screw didn’t want to budge and started to loose the head, so I stopped. I didn’t want to start whacking them with a mallet and you certainly can’t heat them like we do on motorcycles, so I just left it alone. Last month I received my Yiggy back from Schiit due to a failed USB card. And it was in a new chassis as the tech broke off the screws holding the board to the chassis. Considering I want the boards updated and brought up to spec they’re best just shipped. I would like your input on power tubes and speakers. I have a relatively fresh set of GL KT-77’s and in my mind they’re glorified EL-34’s. Down the road I’ll be considering KT-120’s and GL KT-88’s. So any input especially speakers is appreciated. Regards , Mike B. |
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