2. cables
  3. 193109-198816

Directional wires/cables

Is there any reason to support the idea that cables, interconnects or any other kind of wiring can be considered directional? It seems that the theory is that carrying current will alter the molecular structure of the wire. I can't find anything that supports this other than in the case of extreme temperature variation. Cryo seems to be a common treatment for wire nowadays. Extreme heat would do something as well, just nothing favorable. No idea if cryo treatment works but who knows. Back to the question, can using the wires in one direction or another actually affect it's performance? Thanks for any thoughts. I do abide by the arrows when I have them. I "mostly" follow directions but I have pondered over this one every time I hook up  a pair.

billpete
rodman99999
6,185 posts
 

                                           A rewind:

    

       Anyone needing a rationale for experimenting with new fuses, cables or various, "tweaks" in their system and/or feeling dissuaded by the Church of Denyin'tology's antiquated electrical doctrines: take heart!

        Many new electrical facts have been established in the past 100 years, lending support for the audible differences between them.

         I couldn't find anything like, "Updated Electrical Theory For Idiots", but- did manage to find something resembling a cartoon, that even a child could follow.  It neither mentions AC/sinusoidal waves in wires, nor does it go into the photon propagation of electromagnetic waves.   It does, however, emphasize/demonstrate how Electrical Theory has progressed, since the 1800s:

              (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGJqykotjog)

        These next two presuppose a certain amount of knowledge, in the field of modern Electrical Theory.    Click, "more" in the first link's third answer, to get its entirety.    Note how it mentions the OLD, "... commonly held misconception that the flow of electricity through a wire resembles a tube filled with ping pong balls...", to which the Denyin'tologists fervently adhere: 

https://www.quora.com/Are-photons-involved-in-all-forms-of-electricity-for-example-when-it-flows-through-wires?utm_medium=organic&utm_source=google_rich_qa&utm_campaign=google_rich_qa     

                                            and:

        https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=2348

 

                                     per Feynman:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feynman_diagram#Representation_of_physical_reality


        It's an established (measured) fact that an electromagnetic wave's propagation and speed, are dependent on the materials, of which the transmission line (cable) are made (ie: Dielectric Constant/permittivity).     The better (lower) the Dielectric Constant the better the flow and the longer it takes for that material to become polarized.     One reason anything that comprises an RLC circuit (ie: capacitors, cables, PC boards), takes time to, "form", or, "break/burn-in".*      

                                  *Some things that make the Denyin'tologists apoplectic:
   https://resources.pcb.cadence.com/blog/2019-dielectric-constant-of-pcb-substrate-materials-and-signa....
                         The, "conductor" acts as a waveguide 

https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/II_24.html

          Even the most inane (regarding the Sciences) must admit; braiding and twisting wires eliminates/reduces EMI interference.              
          That must lend credence to various cable geometries.

          That better dielectrics enhance the propagation of electromagnetic waves (ie: your music signal), lends the same credence to choosing cables with better materials (ie: Polypropylene, Teflon, air, etc).

           Of course: anything the Church of Denyin'tology's popes can't fathom, they'll summarily dismiss.

     

         As simple a device as a fuse is: it still carries a sinusoidal signal/voltage, ALWAYS from source to load.

                                                 NOT back and forth!

         Also (as mentioned above): any fuse acts as an RLC circuit, the 'C' of which will be determined by properties of its wave guide's/conductor's surroundings (ie: glass, air, bee's wax, ceramic, end cap materials, etc).

          Any commonly drawn wire will exhibit a chevron pattern in its crystal lattice, so: why not "directionality" and why Ohno Continuous Cast, single crystal wire sounds better, to so many?

 

                   Stated above are scientifically tested, measured and proven facts. 

                                 There is no "contest", or "dispute" involved.

 

          Anyone that feels compelled to harp on not hearing any differences, is obviously too obtuse to understand the term "variables" (as frequently mentioned) and worthy of disregard.

  

          My only goal in these threads has ever been to encourage those with a mind to experiment with their systems, based on the latest (20th/21st Century's) findings of ACTUAL Physics/science and ignore the Cargo Cult's incessant runway building (objections, convolutions, deflections and obfuscations).
tony1954's avatar
tony1954
1,123 posts
 

I had a Wireworld interconnect that didn't function at all if connected backwards, so I guess the answer can be yes.

tubes4good
30 posts
 

I just trust what the manufacturer tells me. I assume that they know their product better than anyone.

dlevi67
54 posts
 

@rodman99999

As simple a device as a fuse is: it still carries a sinusoidal signal/voltage, ALWAYS from source to load. NOT back and forth!

Also (as mentioned above): any fuse acts as an RLC circuit, the ’C’ of which will be determined by properties of its wave guide’s/conductor’s surroundings (ie: glass, air, bee’s wax, ceramic, end cap materials, etc).

Any commonly drawn wire will exhibit a chevron pattern in its crystal lattice, so: why not "directionality" and why Ohno Continuous Cast, single crystal wire sounds better, to so many?

Stated above are scientifically tested, measured and proven facts.

1) Your first statement above is completely incorrect. A fuse (to take your example) does not carry a voltage (whatever that means, since it is a meaningless statement in the first place). The idea of ’source’ and ’load’ are irrelevant in electrical theory; you can represent any part of a (linear-ized) circuit as a ’source’ with an ’impedance’ that is connected to the rest of the circuit ("load"). The fact that we as humans interested in hearing sound being reproduced interpret one component as a source and another as a load has nothing to do with the way in which electrical circuits behave.

2) All the parameters of an RLC representation of a real component will be influenced by the properties of the materials they are made and surrounded by. Not just capacitance.

3) The fact that a drawn wire will show a grain orientation does not imply your (or anybody else’s) opinion that there is any "directionality" or asymmetry in the way in which a non-DC waveform is transmitted through it.

4) Your "stated above" is not fact; it’s a mixture of poorly understood electrical theory/physics, and opinions. As is your idea that because materials with a high dielectric constant take longer to polarise therefore this justifies the phenomenon of burn-in.

5) Very little of what you have posted has anything to do with the topic of this thread, which is about the directionality of cables to audio signals.

Before continuing, kindly get a degree in electrical engineering (which I happen to have), rather than posting nonsense under the flag of "it’s new theory". No, it isn’t. The idea that electrical currents move as ping-pong balls in a tube is not based on "old theories"; it’s a (bad) analogy used today with high school students who start learning about electricity without having the mathematical background to understand different and more correct/complete representations. It’s neither more nor less than second grade students being told "you cannot do 2 minus 3" as they have not been introduced to negative numbers.

dlevi67
54 posts
 

@billpete 

What about ones that do not have directionality in mind? Will they "learn" to be better in one direction than the other? This would mean that they physically changed over time.

No, they won't - there is no "direction" to an AC signal that would change the material to conduct preferentially in one sense rather than the other - and if there were, it would be a cause of significant distortion. Either the cable is manufactured asymmetrically (with different shielding or cable geometry) or it isn't - the asymmetry may cause differences in sound when the cable is plugged in one way rather than the other, but the asymmetry would not change because a signal is sent (from a human "teleological" perspective) from A to B instead of from B to A.

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