Directional wires/cables

@jea48 

I see you didn't bad mouth Ralph Morrison. 

Ralph Morrison What is Electronics

"If we accept the idea that fields carry energy in space, it must be true at all frequencies. That is the law. If it is true for light, it must also be true for 60Hz power and at DC. For utility power, the energy travels in the space between conductors, not in the conductors. This is not the picture presented by circuit diagrams, where energy seems to be carried by conductors. In digital circuits, the signals and energy travel in the spaces between traces or between traces and conducting surfaces.

Buildings have halls and walls. People move in the halls, not the walls. Circuits have traces and spaces. Signals and energy move in the spaces, not in the traces."

No, I could not be bothered but I will have a little crack at him now!

If it is true for light, it must also be true for 60Hz power and at DC.

Light is an example of electromagnetic radiation which can be visualised in classical physics as synchronised oscillations of electric and perpendicular magnetic fields.  In a vacuum, they travel at the speed of light.

They are reinterpreted in quantum physics as streams of photons, which are uncharged particles with zero mass when they are at rest.  Photons do not obey the Pauli exclusion principle.

In this context, 60-Hz power and DC surely refer to electricity?  60-Hz electromagnetic waves are very low frequency radio waves!  DC is not any sort of wave.

Electricity is the result of charge, and charges are carried by electrons and other particles which do obey the Pauli exclusion principle.  Similar charges strongly repel, and opposite charges strongly attract.  Richard Feynman has stated that every electron affects every other electron in our universe.

Electric currents are not a form of Electromagnetic radiation - Wikipedia.  Mr Morrison is confusing photonics and electronics (electricity in particular).  Having got that fundamentally wrong, his assertion that electrical energy is carried in the spaces between conductors is equally wrong.

His speciality seems to be circuit board layout for digital circuits.  His message is to beware of interference between adjacent traces, especially in multi-layered applications.  This is good advice, not because of electromagnetic radiation, but because every electron interacts with every other electron.  (Photons are much better behaved!).

In digital circuits, the signals and energy travel in the spaces between traces or between traces and conducting surfaces

Surely traces are conducting surfaces?

The circuit board traces are the conductive halls filled with crowds of free electrons.

Finally, digital circuits typically operate at or near Gigahertz switching rates.  The skin effect is very important at these rates.  Almost always the switching is done in integrated circuits based on doped semi-conductors, not conducting metals.  The quantum properties of the electron turn this subject from electrics into electronics, often at the nano-scale.

If Mr Morrison believes in his "law" he should change his title to "What is photonics"

 

@richardbrand Said: post on 02-24-2025 at 09:53pm

@jea48

I learned in 2010 what I was taught in K thru12 was wrong how electricity works.... Four years of electrical apprenticeship training I was taught the same wrong crap

Nevertheless, it would be helpful if you could remember how to apply Ohm’s Law, and how power is calculated in electrical circuits! Fortunately, when wiring houses, you don’t need to work things out from first principles, because engineers have done this for you and experts have written building codes to follow.

.

I know quite well how to apply Ohm’s Law. If you could understand what you read it might help. I am beginning to think you are an idiot...

.

Talking of government, a while ago I sold an upgrade to The Canberra Hospital’s digital imaging system, which was the source of all patient records. I included a big uninterruptible power supply (UPS) with rectifiers, batteries and inverters. The hospital insisted that their own electricians do the installation. When I inspected the finished system, there was a computer room with hospital grade power outlets, red for the high-availability outlets, beautifully run back through a distribution system to the UPS. But the UPS only had one cable connected - the output. The electricians (we call them sparkies in Australia) had "forgotten" to run mains power to the UPS.

Rambling gibberish. What’s your point? You are a Big Man in Australia or the electricians are incompetent? Nobody, is that stupid. You know the electrician(s) may have though the batteries were special and provided endless energy power to the UPS. There is food for thought...

.

My partner’s son leads a crew working on high voltage transmission lines running hundreds of thousands of Volts, but in Australia he is not officially qualified to install a 240-Volt outlet in his own home! That would be against government regulations.

Your partners son is a Lineman. I am sure he is qualified to change out a simple 240V outlet in his own home. It’s not brain surgery.

As for my qualifications I hold a current up date Masters-Class A License. Before retiring I worked over 42+ years exclusively in the electrical wiring of Commercial, Hospitals, and Industrial facilities. Just one of the Industrial projects I worked on was a new, (now owned by ADM), Soybean Oil Refinery, One the largest in the Midwest. I was the General Foreman in change of, on average, 75 to 100 IBEW Electricians on the project. Not bragging, my expertise is in Layout. I spent more time in the Mechanical contractors trailers looking at their prints than my trailer looking at the electrical prints. Mechanical has priority to where their stuff is installed, per the mechanical prints. ( Authority found in the job spec book.) Electrical installations, below them. The electrical contractor has to move his stuff if his men installed it where a mechanical contractor’s stuff is meant to be installed. Time is money!

Hospitals... I worked for years in the largest privately own hospital in My State. (Not employed as an employee for the hospital. I worked for an Electrical Contractor. You name it, I did it. I was in charge of wiring the power to feed MRI Rooms, Cat Scan rooms, Countless numbers of X-Ray Rooms. I was in charge of any gutter ways needed for the equipment installations. I was in charge of installing the overhead ceiling heavy gauge steel unistrut system that supported the heavy X-ray equipment that hung from the ceiling. Level with-in a + or - 1/8". Some X-Ray units that used a big "C Arm" X-Ray equipment costing $1.5 million dollars + (probably $2 million today) the strut had to be solid with 100% no movement.

UPS? Installed them too. I never forgot to feed the input to one of them though.

Emergency Power Generating Systems installed them too.... Yep and everything associated with them. Going from memory, there were seven Large KW 480V 3ph 4wire WYE generators that were located in various locations throughout the hospital complex.

The Hospital has a Co-Generation Power system. (No longer used.) A $10 million dollar white elephant the brain child of a Mechanical Engineer that worked in house for the hospital... You know come to think about of it I bet you and him would have got along great. He was a want to be EE. We butted heads a lot of times over the years he was there before he finally was fired.

3 phase 13,800 volt distribution power systems for the hospital complex. HV switchgear, feeders the works. Did it all.

Several Big KVA Oiled filled step down 3Ph 13,800V to 480V 3ph 4 Wire WYE power transformers. And a few oil filled 3PH 13,800V to 120/208V 3ph 4 wire WYE Power transformers.

.

I’m going to stop here. I think you get the idea for my electrical hands on practical experience qualifications. Is mine bigger than yours? I got more if you need it....

This is yours.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/what-is-the-true-impact-of-power-supply-differences-japan-us-austra

.

Sorry guys for getting off topic of the thread.

 

Or think of a long train (our record in Australia is 4.5 miles long with 682 cars and 8 locomotives), The couplers between the cars are designed to have a small amount of slack so overall the train stretches when pulled and compresses when braked.  Imagine the train is stopped.  Apply power to the lead locomotive, and the coupling to the next car will stretch a bit before that car starts to move.  The process ripples down the length of the train.  After a short while, the signal that the train is moving arrives at the last car (a mile or more from the loco) though overall not one of the cars has moved more than a few yards.

                                              and:

  Richard Feynman has stated that every electron affects every other electron in our universe.

         How many times the Dunning-Kruger exemplar above has mentioned Richard Feynman and/or QED, without the first clue as to the workings of his/its basic theory, would be hilarious, were it no so pathetic.

                      Another blunder, from the land down under?

                                          Happy listening

You have a way with words, @jea48 .  

You have a way with words, @jea48 .  

I try.