Options to improve digital sound


Hi,

I am looking for some, hopefully, simple advice.  My current digital system is an M4 MacMini feeding a Holo May DAC into a PrimaLuna 400 preamp and amp.  My speakers are Devore Gibbon X.  I primarily listen to downloaded and ripped files with Roon and Audirvana.  I also use Qobuz, but not as often.

The sound quality is good, but I feel like it could be improved.  The options I'm considering are a Small Green Computer SonicTransporter i7 to replace the Mini, or a SGC UltraRendu to put between the Mini and the Holo May.

Which option would be better?  Is there a better option?  I'd like to keep the cost under around $2500.

Thanks

walt8489

Hi. 

Instead of suggesting various streamer, endpoints, cable or configuration options, I’ll try to briefly breakdown various areas to consider that create interference in the cable/ network path affecting audio resolution (sound floor). That way you can work to find a solution that is best for your system and budget. 
 

A. Reduce Electrical or digital noise: Major factor! 

(1) By decoupling electrical connections: For example, use UTP (unshielded) Ethernet cable. Create fiber optic connections/  galvanic separation links.
Use devices design specifically for low noise high quality digital processing and delivery (not a home computer). Ground devices if possible.  Use separate power supplies, if possible. 
 

Regardless of what some may say, in hifi, everything matters at some point and to some degree. Start with the very first step in the digital chain. For me, I started with coax cable feeding into my house from my ISP (Xfinity). I considered every step the data traveled to reach my Dac. I then looked for every opportunity to reduce or eliminate line noise entry points.
 

I suggest, start with the noisiest device or section of your network/ data chain and work towards your DAC. Go slowly, take your time to learn as much as you can about each section and find a better solution. You will be absolutely amazed how much this can improve SQ. (And it doesn’t need to cost a lot)
 

I have a basic Roon Nucleus, but my digital network from coax cable drop outside to my DAC is well thought out and designed to reduce noise. 
 

FYI, I also have the Gibbon X speakers :)

best to you 
 

 


 


 

 

 

Roon Core is where vast majority of processing goes on, the relatively complex interface of Roon is processor intensive. CPU's working at relatively high rates creates more noise and higher latency, both are enemies of resolution  Higher latency also means greater chance for timing issues. The reason so many find Roon inferior to the proprietary music players is those music players have been designed as to require far less processing and deliver lower latency, result is both increased resolution and more analog like sound quality. 

First going to start by saying everything you know and love about analog signal transfer, do not transfer to digital. a packet is so different over a analog signal, they share almost nothing.

@sns  Going to buck this trend. Streaming is NOT CPU intensive, it's all network speed, and computer IOPS. Roon may be CPU intensive, when indexing, sorting playlist, getting artwork, etc, but all those task are RAM and disk intensive. 

Latency is only in networks, not in the computer. What happens inside the computer is cacheing, and processes start to get stalled waiting for CPU time. Nothing inside the Roon should make it run completely run out of resources. 

What is happening on the app on your tablet is not the same as what is happening inside the Roon core, or your streamer. The streamer doesn't care about anything but getting the stream, it doesn't concern it's self with anything else. 

CPU's do not create noise, noise on the processing side are not thing. What does create noise are spinning disk, fans, and power supplies. A CPU will not introduce noise when running at 100% anymore then when running 25%. That is simply not a thing.

Unless something is wrong with the end to end system if your stream is 16/44, it will be 16/44 at the DAC. Nothing in the chain will drop the 16/44 bit rate unless there are issues. It takes around 5mb of bandwidth for 16/44. When you do have issues, the streams does not degrade, the song just stops playing. 

For everyone, who is so worried about getting the cleanest stream to the DAC, if you have the rented modem it is the biggest pile of poo in your entire chain. If it's Xfinity, you are also sharing it will everyone in WiFi range. 

For networks, you want AS FEW HOPS as you can get. You also want AS FEW conversions along the way. Adding several switches, and swapping from coax, e-net, fiber, and so on is not a good thing. All have their places and uses. Get a good commercial switch, set it up properly and you should be good. If you are so worried about it, do some QoS, port mapping, network segmantation....

So, Roon not cpu intensive. Many monitor their cpu utilization in real time and report relatively high utilization with Roon vs other music players. Also I directly monitor cpu usage via Euphony OS, I can do this by direct connection to streamer or via tablet. I'm monitoring both temps and utilization in real time.

 

As for digital packets not impacting analog signal, laughable. Streamers don't affect latency, nonsense. 

 

This all a bunch of nonsense.

@mswale Appreciate the detailed information. 
 

The discussion of data network noise and implementation is not a very exciting topic and clearly full of debate. I think, It should be important to those looking to improve their digital music experience, in addition to (upgrading streaming devices).

(Data packet transmission and timing is a totally different topic. I’m only addressing electric noise transmitted from device to device along the network chain.)

 

Whether CPU processing noise is relevant, I don’t know. I feel electric noise emitted by a single poorly designed network device or a summation of network devices is the main issue. I don’t think, in general, having fewer network devices is better or best. Logically to me, simply decoupling and/ or reducing electrical network noise is paramount. So whatever it takes to achieve lower noise needs to be done. Of course starting with a device that is designed to limit unwanted noise is key. I respectfully disagree with @mswale that the use of fiber optic is not good, generally speaking. Used wisely, fiber optic connections can be an effective tool at separating/ isolating noisy devices from the DAC. (this topic has been discussed over and over on AG). Sorry to bringing it up again. 

 

I have two SoTm network switches with built-in SFP (fiber optics). The two switches are connected by signal mode fiber. My Dac is connected to switch #2, my Roon Nucleus is connected to switch #1, resulting in isolation between streamer and DAC. Each switch has a dedicated external power supply.  Noticeable improvement to SQ. 
 

Point being, it was important for me to dial in my network before upgrading my streamer. Hopefully my thoughts and experiences are contributing to this thread. 
 

Cheers