Analog Magic Question

Hi Bob,

Thanks for sharing your insight.  It does not surprise me that Analog Magic is used by professionals.  It is clearly a professional tool.  Although the program itself is easy to use, getting optimal results in set up is time consuming and not guaranteed.  There is skill involved here, which is why I was hoping to find someone to mentor me.  

Take Care,

Bill

The only issue I have with the Analog Magic is their speed test.

It is not possible to accurately measure platter speed using a test tone.

The only accurate way is to use a rotary function generator.

Here is a quote from Bruce Thigpen - Eminent Technology

Reviewers have incorrectly attributed wow and flutter to the turntable. Since the advent of the belt drive turntable, wow and flutter has been purely a function of tonearm geometry, the phono cartridge compliance with the elastomeric damping, and surface irregularities in the LP. In our own lab we have measured many high quality turntables using a rotary function generator directly connected to the platters of the turntables.

The measured results are usually an order of magnitude better than the results using a tonearm and test record (conventional wow and flutter method). Further proof exists if you take two tonearms, one straight line and one pivoted and mount them both on the same turntable. The straight line tonearm will give a wow and flutter reading with the same cartridge/test record of about 2/3 to 1⁄2that of the pivoted arm (.03% < .07% to .05%). This is because the straight line tonearm has a geometry advantage and lateral motion does not result in stylus longitudinal motion along the groove of the record.

Another proof is to take two different cartridges, one high compliance and one low compliance, and take measurements with both using the same turntable and tonearm. The reading of wow and flutter will be different. All wow and flutter readings are higher than the rotational consistency of the turntable.

FWIW, what on the surface should seem to be a very simple thing to understand and measure, wow and flutter, is anything but that.  I have not yet had an opportunity to work on a belt drive TT.  That day will come, but the two I have ready to hand now are both direct drive.  So it is a given that speed is correct.  I think we can agree that the wow and flutter measurement I am getting is what is on the test record.  In addition to surface irregularities (minimal) there is also the eccentricity of the hole (minimal). Note: minimal is not zero.  Both of my measured arms are pivoted, one 9" and one 10", presumably arm length has some impact we’ll call factor X.  I am not sure what the practical implications of any of this are on the program.  Logically it can be agreed that both the speed and the wow and flutter tests should be set aside.  At least for DD turntables.  I think that is useful.

Hi Bill,

I don’t have experience with Analogue Magik but I’ve read this thread and their website. From both it is clear that their method is time consuming, iterative and not guaranteed. I’ll assume when it does work, it works quite well.

For those following this thread looking for set up methods better than eyeballing, tuning by ear or using various protractors etc., I’d like to mention the process I went through with Wally Analogue & JR Bosclair. 

The primary reason I mention JR is because I used his microscopy analysis service on my MSL Signature Platinum. This provided 2 important (critical) data points: stylus zenith error (almost 4 degrees) and SRA. Published zenith error from 2 of the 3 major manufacturers of stylus cantilever assemblies is +/- 5 degrees. That is a lot! Once known, zenith error can be accurately accounted for in set up, and SRA/VTA is corrected with a custom shim so that the tone arm can remain parallel with the platter.

Including the full Wally tool set, the cost was about $1200, and took about 4 hours of my time including watching tutorial videos. This price also includes having JR pretty much on call to talk you through questions/issues during set up.

When the process is complete, you are done, other than re-checking antiskating & VTF every 6 months or so, or after moving the TT.

The confidence I have in my cart/TT set up is high enough that I never think about it. 

I would imagine this process and tool set could potentially be used in conjunction with Audio Magik to give a you a significant "leg up" and maybe save time and frustration, albeit at not insignificant cost. 

I am familiar with Wally tools, have used them, subscribe to JR's blog and have a friend who has loaned me his full set of tools.  The two approaches are fully compatible and in fact if you can first set up your TT with Wally tools, then use AnalogMagik(the correct spelling of the program - I got it wrong) to fine tune you will get the result more easily methinks.  As I gain more experience and confidence with the program I am coming to the conclusion that the key parameters are azimuth and zenith.  It is here where the magic (or MagiK) occurs.  Of course there is more to it than that.  For example, Wally tools did not disclose limitations in two of my cartridges.  I am also learning that VTA is not that big of a deal really, meaning it can be way off without adding much distortion.  This is the kind of thing that AnalogMagik can show.

Bill