Let's talk music, no genre boundaries


This is an offshoot of the jazz thread. I and others found that we could not talk about jazz without discussing other musical genres, as well as the philosophy of music. So, this is a thread in which people can suggest good music of all genres, and spout off your feelings about music itself.

 

audio-b-dog

Soul existence is a demonstrated fact in CIA laboratory and in medical hospitals..

Believing in soul or not is beside the fact...

Remote viewing is proven fact as is perception out of the body, OBE and NDE etc 

Then the word "soul" means at least in a minimal way perception at distance  of physical or non physical meaning...In a maximal way of meaning it means that you are not your body at all. You  are only kept alive or dead  in his set of filters, alive if you think by yourself, dead if you are a robot with no critical thinking...

Believing in matter only is being dead...

As John Vervaeke demonstrated there is a reason why there is so many "zombies" movies now... ( the most boring movies ever in my opinion) 

"spiritual depth" is an experience of one of the consciousness potential  layers of experiences not consciousness itself.

 

@larsman @mahgister 

Prior to my research into the ancient past, I would have agreed with @larsman  about the soul. Something like a deep and abiding conscience, which not all people have. Christianity would say, I think, that everybody is born with a soul. Studies of psychopaths would disagree.

As I studied ancient humanity, I found out that art and music seem to define humanity (Homos sapiens). Prior Homos species had the same body structure and just as large a brain cavity, if not larger in some cases. But not until about 60,000 years ago (some might say 100,000--it doesn't make a difference for my argument) we find a sudden burst of creativity out of the Homos genus. Tools, jewelry, art.

From a Darwinian perspective, why would Homos Sapiens waste their time with art rather than finding food and lodgings? How does art help Homos sapiens in our survival? And yet there it is. Jewelry buried in caskets. Cave wall drawings and paintings. What was that all about?

The oldest known musical instrument is a flute made out of an animal's horn from about 43,000 years ago. Most likely, prior to that there were instruments made out of wood and other materials that deteriorate. Like visual arts, music seems to go back to our beginnings, and we must have needed it to give it priority over other endeavors that would add to humans' survival.

I think it's fair to assume that dancing may have gone hand in hand with the music. It is my opinion that people decorated their bodies, played music, and danced to celebrate their existence as part of the universe.

The first deities of which we find evidence are pregnant female figures known as "Venuses." It makes total sense that early humanity saw femals as the creators, because when they saw animals and humans born it was always from females. I won't go into the evidence, but it seems that females were also the first cave painters. There is strong evidence that those first cave painters were shamans and priests.  

From what we know of the early feminine religions, they were much different than the later male-dominated religions. Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc. believe in a male creator who stood apart from, and outside of the universe. The Torah (Judaic Bible) had no godesses, even though literature that influenced the Bible did have many strong goddesses. 

Why is this important to the soul and music? The Great Mother (highest feminine goddess) was a part of her creation, unlike the God we know today. She did not exist apart from the universe. So, when people sang and danced to the Great Mother, they sang and danced to the universe and their existence as part of it.

Everything was a part of something. There were no individual souls like we have today. So music was joy on the deepest soulful level. Joy at our existence as well as a deep respect for the universe. And this is how I see music tied to the "soul." Although, I don't see the soul as an individual thing, as religions do today. We all share the universal soul with the Great Mother or whatever you want to call the creator who created by being a part of things, not outside and above things.

I am sure this is different than how you have seen the soul as something that belongs to you. I see it as a collective thing that is to be rejoiced. Since this, I believe, reflects ancient thinking, very early composers could have written with a soul in mind that is similar to what I have just described. And for me, the deepest music is a reflection of this.

The "soul" state and existence is not the matter of this thread about music then i will not go further on this...

 

I will only add this :

Before any instrument  perhaps with the exclusion of percussive objects, the voice gesture amplifying or resonating with the gesturing body is the simultaneous beginnings of speech as we understand it and of music.

  The depth of the  spiritual expressive content of music is,  as in the articles above together demonstrated, in the relation between the vibrating sound sources timbre (instrument+musician voice and body gestures) and the non measurable+measurable time dimensions of the expressive gestures act connected to the social group and Nature...

No instituted religion is needed in the beginings why ?

Because the Nature soul as the soul of the group  and of each individual is one mimesis phenomenon, where hunting, praying, dancing, speaking-singing, eating or dreaming  are one activity...Meanings is not mere information but a cosmic event cascading in the Group which perceive the synchronicities as meaningful events...

 We can see it nowadays degraded in  crowd hysteria and lynching festival...

We are "civilized" : we begin to loose our individualities in the mass control experiment call A.I. technology and other "progress" sponsored by mad uneducated oligarchs... But it is like the "soul" alleged  non existence for programmed mind  another matter for another forum...

 

@mahgister 

Great! We agree. I'm listening to Cassandra Wilson. If you're not familiar with her, you might give her a try. Perhaps the greatest living jazz singer.