Abbingdon music research AMR cd-77 is how good?

Mrtennis, indeed. There are arguments to support your perspective. However, remember it is not intrinsically foolish except for you because that is your opinion and perspective. To each his own.

Sabai. Indeed. The DP-777 is very well thought of...is the AMR-CD-77.1 better. I do not personally know. The problem I have encountered with some DACs on occasion is the interface and the digital interconnect from transport to DAC causing degredation to the digital signal that is sonically apparent. That said, I would assume AMR did their part to handle the incoming signal for the DP-777, especially knowing that their product end goal was indeed to produce an outstanding DAC.

I am sure that you have an excellent unit and I would consider this something to keep presumably for a long period of time. These pieces are unique in their engineering approach and resultant sonics.

Back to MrTennis, Yes. Capacitors and tubes do affect sound. My discussion with tube rollers on the AMR CDP-771 is that they after endless tube rolling came full circle back to the stock NOS tubes that are reasonably available.

In fact everything effects the sound of everything...so one can go on forever. The CD-77.1 may indeed be able to be tweaked even further with Mundorf Capacitors, but the basic unit is now so good as to make this sort of thing in my book not desirable.

Also, MrTennis makes the logical point of comparing this unit to others in its price class. There are many units in that price class to compare and many opinions. In the end, I did not have the luxury or time to do that comparison.

Like many, who buy at this price point I referred to the insight of a few trusted audiophile friends with "golden ears" and went on their advice. I am not telling anyone else what to do. The units MrTennis mentions are well regarded. I discussed them with people that knew such units and there were many reasons at the time such units were ruled out.

I have been told that SACD sounds better than the AMR CDP-77.1. I haven not performed the comparison. SACD is considered to be superior and I am glad it is still being put out by recording engineers. Yes. There is not the same abundance of Redbook (Regular) CDs, but SACD is something that I do think about possibly expanding into one day, but that is a conversation for another time. The person who told me this was listening to a friends Wadia SACD player on an entirely different set up..I do not think they did an A/B comparison...a business Wadia has quietly discontinued.

That said, there are other manufacturers of SACD players. McIntosh has quite a following for their MCD-500 and now their MCD-1100.

And, of course there are many factors that go into a re-mastered SACD. All of this is subjective, but that could be an alternative to explore with currently less material on that medium.

I do believe that musical sound that is emotionally engulfing/involving can be had for under 5k (for the digital source only part) if you know what to get...but, I will also submit that none of that will sound good IMHO without credible power conditioning...running around 5k USD MSRP again IMHO. And, this assumes you have made serious investments in the preamplification, amplification, and speaker portion of your system.

The above statement is based on my own personal experience, measurements and money spent. It is extremely important to stabilise both the Voltage and have available Current for a system to reach a sonic state of "liquidity" and resolve by also lowering the Noise Floor. The definition of liquidity here is a sonic state, where the music seems to emerge from a sort of "blackness" in an "effortless" (often said to be like flowing water) and dynamically & tonally balanced character that smacks of true to life (I call this "spooky real") as well as evocative of finding oneself mesmerized by the ending and beginning of the next note (Harmonic reintroduction to reconstitute content through an engineering artform...like a great Chef, imparting the essences of hidden flavors that emerge as the meal goes on)... ...the elusive holy grail...of hi-end...

Again, this and these statements are merely MHO. So, I am not one to submit absolutes or declare I have the best, rather I would say, "AMR equipment is truely reference class and if you have excellent preamplification and ampplification clarity with resolving and musical speakers as a base, then you can attain a shocking level of musical involvement and pleasure from listening to music as an end in itself.

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I want to mention one important experience. DO NOT FALL FOR THE PURCHASE OF THE BENDIX 6900 (trumpeted as a substitute tube for the output stage, even stated in the manual--I disagree in light of my own experiences). I NEARLY LOST THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON PAIRS THAT WERE NOTHING BUT TRASH. I WAS DEALING WITH A TUBE CON. I had my purchase independently tested on the Amplitrex 1000 tube tester and not only were the tubes measured as "used up," but several had measured leakage currents that would damage my system.

The tube dealer that I worked with to determine the condition of my purchase, will not sell Bendix 6900s becuase he has not seen any in years that are not used up, pulls, etc.. or defective. There are approxmately two dealers who sell these. WARNING. DO NOT BUY. It is your money.

I was very excited and was taken in by a skilled con. Learn from my experience and DO NOT BUY THE BENDIX 6900...ever.

The Bendix 6900 is a military hardened 5687 equivalent tube (already a military tube itself with strong emmissions). It has a mythology surrounding it...It is made with "Nomex" Glass that is hard and thick and heavy...something like a borosilicate glass for the temperature stress of rapid temperature changes experienced by ICBMs ascending or descending the upper atmospher and mechanical hardening for its actual application as pulsed radar tube in missle guidance systems. So, now what?

Well there is good news. The 5687 tube (used in the AMR CDP-77.1 as a standard) is used in the driver stage. The AMR provided JAN Philips 5687 is abundant and absolutely excellent. It is a hardy and excellent driver for a standard minature tube "[that it resembles a 6SN7 (bigger bottle) tube on steroids]" by the accounts of one Principal Engineer designer that uses this tube in their very own equipment as a driver tube for his Parallel Single Ended Triode (PSET) monoblocks.

Good luck everybody... I did not plan to come back to this thread, but saw more stuff written and thought I would respond...and also share this last piece of information.

These are just my opinions and perspectives...I am not telling anyone what to do...we are all adults (or aspiring to be ~ : )) and I trust can make decisions on how we want to shape our system. In fact shaping the system is a huge part of the fun of this often rather expensive hobby.

Cheers!!!

Vze739en,
your comments are well taken.. I would like your view of my other pieces: Herron Vtsp 1A and Mccormack DNA-1 (silver upgrade).. I am thinking the AMR (source) is superior to the others; however, I am hoping not so much as to reduce the ability to hear the incredible sound of the AMR...

To determine which is better, the CD-77.1 or the DP-777, it is advisable to audition both side by side if possible. The two are very different products yet cut from the same cloth sonically, bearing comparison against excellent analog playback and live music rather than other digital equipment.

AMR dealer.

Dvdgreco,

First here is a review you may have seen on the product you have an interest in:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1200/herronaudio.htm

Next, I have been interested in his equipment before and came close to purchasing one of his preamplifiers.

He is a trained engineer and has labored over the years to develop his equipment. The piece you are looking at or own is older generation, which could mean it is time to send it back to Keith Herron for a check out. The only thing would be a capacitor replacement. My conversation with him reveals him to be an honest gentleman. He is not a rip off artist. His equipment is real and he, like all designers makes his own choices. Although, I have not heard his equipment personally, it appears well built and specified.

One thing that is very important to me and very elusive to find is a quality Volume control, and I believe that is what drew me to his preamplifiers at the time I was interested.

Again, it appears he has taken great care to provide a Volume control with sufficient span to accomodate mating with different amplifiers.

The unit you are discussing indicates 14 dB of gain and an output impedance of only 100 ohms with 128 stepped attenuator. I would ask Keith if I were you, by calling, but I can only assume that these steps are lets be conservative and say 0.5 dB increments and not some sort of tapered stepping.

This means you have 64 dB of Volume flexibility and with 14 dB of gain, you have -50dB attenuation at your disposal. I can say that if you confirm what I am exptrapolating above as true, then I recommend the compatibility part of this unit for almost any amplifier with standard impedances (input) of 10 k ohms or greater. I think the rule of thumb is lower than that...maybe...but, that means you should expect no low frequency roll off and full transfer of the signal to your amplifier.

Now, that said, he does use FETs on the input of this preamp. Purists would take issue with that. The review is positive and if you have the opportunity...let your ears be the guide.

Make sure you invest in serious power conditioning with time as your budget affords. I personally endorse the Furman IT Ref class conditioners and the SPRi 20 Voltage Regulator to not only preserve your tubes, but to get the very most from your sound system.

These upper end Furman products are well built and categorically will make a sonic difference.

There is a series one step under the Furman Ref class...like the Elite 20PFi that may be an economical compromise to save money and get you to where you want to go.

I have not heard the Elite series in a system, but they specify in a way that indicates similar circuitry to the Reference series for the functionality they do offer... The Ref series has massive Torroidal Isolation Transformers.

I do not recommend this for a number of reasons, but if you want to experiment (and save money)...you could add one more box to the Elite Series (if you actually embrace that road)...something like a very large Tripplite (or some other competing well reviewed brand) Isolation Transformer... I cannot tell you whether this will work well, other than in theory it should...and, I can also say...as much of a kluge as this proposal is...I actually think it could work well...this is for you to chew on.

Ultimately, I would steer you to their better units and be done with it.

okay, you ask about the "Mccormack DNA-1" My quick research indicates this is an amp from the 90's.

First, I have indeed heard McCormick amps. They are very respectable and a sold step up from say Rotel RB-1090 (the only Rotel amp that has any merit...but, is only suitable for very specific applications). However,the AMR equipment eclipses them. Since, you are building a system, this amplifier will be your weakest link and get in the way of you realizing the potential of the AMR equipment.

The Herron Equipment is probably good enough to transfer a lot of the goodness of AMR equipment. The McCormick, as respectable as it is...is not in the same league remotely. In addition, you will likely need to re-cap the amplifier due to its age. I would steer you away from it, unless you already own the McCormick. Yes, they do not cost that much used...but, there is no free lunch. Do NOT buy one.

YES, both of these units are not up to the refinement of the AMR equipment. However, the Herron may be more in the bottom running. The McCormick is out. The only think I can think of is a completely new set of insides for the McCormack, essentially turning it into the amp you should buy in the first place...and by the time you do that...if you are fixated on purchasing the AMR...you need to get an appropriate amplifier in the same league as the AMR or plan/budget for getting the appropriate amplifier in time that can give you all of the AMR goodness.

Your system concept is currently not in balance. It takes one to know. So, nothing wrong there...you just need to bring you system idea into better alignment.

I encourage you to research more to determine some better matches. At this time I will refrain from making any recommendations, because this will turn into a novel. Good luck!!! And, Cheers!!!

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To: Essentialaudio, You have disclosed you deal AMR. Thank you for that honesty and please continue to do that, should you choose to post further.

However, IMHO

One last note: The AMR dealer on here. It is good you disclose you are a dealer, but I think you should not be posting to hobbiest forums, when your agenda is to push your equipment, no matter how much I hold AMR equipment in high regard. I just think you need to market another way. It is intrusive. I submit that to your respectfully and ask you to refrain and get customers by working through your own web site rather than push your equipment here. Please, let customers come to you. This is meant to be constructive. Thank you.

We want people to post that do not have an agenda. That way hobbiests can actually just learn from each other in an unbiased manner. Believe me, we will come to you if we have further questions we think you would know the answer to. That said, you are correct mostly in saying that one must listen to the DP-777 and the AMR-77.1 and see for themselves....but, to really do that properly they would need to get units from you on loan and put them in their own system.

Now, for potential customers near Essential Audio, it is unscrupulous to borrow any of his equipment if you do not sincerely plan to spend your money with him. He is a busnessman and if you plan to buy used, please do not waste any dealers' time. I do not ever go into a dealership or ask more than a token question...and usually none, if I plan to buy used. I consider that inappropriate. Yes, I did do this in the beginning of getting into this hobby. I do not do this anymore. It is NOT a good thing to do. Thanks for everyones consideration on my many remarks.

vze739n,
I appreciate your in depth response.. I do currenlty own a Mccormack DNA-1 which has been recenlty updated by Steve & Kris at SMC Audio to the silver + status..

It will be interesteing to see what the set-up sounds like when all together....