$800 Cartridge Shootout and Upgrade Path

I've really enjoyed this thread & everyone's opinion's.

Raul,

Whether you're correct or others are correct, it feels like you're speaking from an ideal sense, not a practical sense. I see a real life issue I don't think you can solve with your reasoning; I don't think your logic can work for folks woking on a budget up to $5K (and probably a much higher budget). A huge percentage of the folks here are on a budget & are trying to achieve the best possible music from a table, arm, cartridge, preamp, rack, interconnects, cleaining machine, and accessories, within a reasonable budget. It's tough to apply your "logic/argument" in this thread, I wouldn't have a chance do it within my budget.

Dear Raul, perhaps you can point out to me how a cartridge can retrieve information from the groove, if the turntable allows enough movement in the platter to allow the information modulations to pass undeflected under the stylus, or to overmodulate the stylus? This is, of course, bearing in mind that there are modulations in the groove that are on the order of a millionth of an inch, and the movement tolerances in main bearings(even with the oil in them) are about one thousandth, or even one ten-thousandth at best.

Also, perhaps you can explain to me how a cartridge can make the speed correct, and provide proper time-domain and frequency information? Bearing in mind, of course, that the cartridge cannot even hope to affect these parameters, no matter how good it is.

Then, please explain how all turntables are acceptable in this regard, so that it matters not which turntable is used? Because if I've been going for all these years without knowing about a cartridge that can overcome the errors of a turntable, I need to be educated on that right now.

I'm sorry that you don't agree with my position. I will be happy to allow you to enlighten me about the errors of my ways.

And, by the way, I do agree that the tonearm and cartridge are very important factors as well, and I do not minimize their importance in the signal chain. I only point out that the cartridge can only transduce what it reads, and and the arm can only hold it properly over the groove, so that the turntable can feed the information to the cartridge effectively. They work as a team, and if the turntable "drops the ball" and lets the groove be the slightest bit unstable in any plane, the cartridge will never read some of that information correctly, and it will be lost or changed. The turntable provides the environment for the cartridge to work. If the environment is poor, the cartridge cannot make up for it. That is why I say what I do. Not to argue just for argument's sake.

Also, I simply stated my position and the reasons and even gave a little test that people could do to verify, and placed no attack at you during my discussion. However, you have decided to take it upon yourself to say that I am wrong, and implied that I am misleading the members of this forum. That is not appreciated.

TWL is back to his old self...WOW!!!

Dear Twl: Your last two answers don't change in anyway the formula: cartridge/tonearm/turntable. Your answers confirm everyword I already post on the subject, between those words:" tonearm and turntable are really a "_necessary evil", because without them the transducer is unable to operate. However, it's important to remember that it is the transducer itself who has the main responsibility in LP reproduction, and the final result will depend firstly in this transducer quality, and secondly in the quality and matching of its partners ".
TKS for that.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Once again, someone explains things properly, in a clear, concise, and cogent manner, while someone else babbles some crap that nobody understands trying to support his point of view.

This is getting old.

Thanks for trying Tom.