$800 Cartridge Shootout and Upgrade Path

Twl,

You have provided yet another interesting discourse on the importance of the turntable. Keep it coming!

The turntable’s contribution as a provider of all time-domain information is really a mind twister to be sure, but true. One can make the same argument of the transport mechanism in CD players. Without motion, in either case, there is no music.

The bearing is also important, as you say, and it gets so little attention being buried deep in the plinth. Without robust construction, ample lubrication, and being constructed of high quality parts, the bearing will be unable to help the platter rotate at a constant speed without wobble. Even minor movement can create vibration that is then transmitted from the platter to the cartridge where it’s passed onto the speakers as noise. And if the turntable and tonearm resonate too much from airborne vibration produced by the speakers, these resonances create a feedback loop making the situation even worse, something I head with the Denon/Koetsu combination I discussed earlier.

>>The better turntables…allow the cartridge/tonearm combination to perform at a better level because they are presented with the record information from the groove in a more stable manner, both vertically, horizontally, and in the time domain. Without this proper stability of the record groove, no stylus/cartridge can work at its best, and therefore will perform at less than what was intended.<<

If vibration, wow, flutter, and rumble levels are too high, or if they interfere too much with the proper functioning of the cartridge, no matter how expensive that cartridge might be, the cartridge will not live up to its full potential and may even perform at a lower level than a less expensive transducer on a great table. I experienced this firsthand with the Denon/Koetsu combination. While the sound of that combination was good in relative terms, it could have been easily equaled by a cartridge costing only 1/10th the price, or even less. So my experience does correspond to what you have written above. To hear a truly rock-solid turntable spinning one’s favorite vinyl can be awe inspiring: the background is jet-black and silent, every detail is clearly rendered, bass is thunderous and palpable, and there is a prevalent display of upper-octave bloom and air that cannot be equaled by digital.

>>I only point out that the cartridge can only transducer what it reads, and the arm can only hold it properly over the groove, so that the turntable can feed the information to the cartridge effectively…The turntable provides the environment for the cartridge to work. If the environment is poor, the cartridge cannot make up for it.<<

I think this statement sums it up nicely.

Hey Letch,

I am looking forward to reading your report about the Teres-Galibier shootout. Who do you think will win? Which table grabs your attention more? Inquiring minds want to know!

Artar, when you get deep into turntable, tonearm, and cartridge design, there are many things that don't meet the eye. This is the job of the designer and manufacturer to make the best that they can at the price points they intend to sell the items at. It is very difficult for every analog user to fully understand all of the intricacies of analog systems. And it is not necessary for an analog user to understand all of it.

It ultimately depends on the musical reproduction that results. Since we already know that there is no perfect system, we strive to find what serves us best, musically. Different people may have various ideas about this.

I provided some information that I have learned over the years. There is even a whole lot more beyond these things that we have discussed here.

Even these few things have caused some significant differences of opinion here. It is good to get some of these ideas out on the discussion table, so that it can be of use to people willing to learn. In the end, each person makes their decision based on what they know, and what they want. As long as you are happy with the result, and the budget was within your capability, then it is a good result.

I have certain tastes and needs for my music system. The items I selected provide what I wanted, at my budget. I do not intend to say that my selections are by any means the only good selections. There are many ways. Long term experience with listening to different items is the best way to learn. Anytime you listen to advice from anyone, including me, there are going to be certain biases present, based upon what the advisor prefers. This is only natural, and has to be taken into account. I recommend getting as much personal experience as possible, so that you don't need to "lean on" anyone else for opinions which might not match your own needs. I realize that there are a number of folks here on the forum who made their buying decisions based upon what I recommended. This weighs heavily on me, because I feel personally responsible somewhat, for their happiness with their analog system. I cannot guarantee that they will like my selections as much as I do. However, so far, it has worked out pretty good, because I haven't gotten anyone angry at me yet for a bad recommendation. But it could happen. I do know that they won't go too far wrong with items I recommend, but it may happen that they prefer another item better, and I cannot control that. All I can say that if you have a similar taste and need as I have, then the items I recommend will work well together to give you that result. If everyone liked the same thing, then there would be only one TT, one arm, and one cartridge for sale. The fact that there are many, shows that there are different tastes, needs, and budgets, and different ideas of how things should work. This is part of the fun.

Dear Artar1: First I write " around $5K ". Second: I own the Moerch Dp6 ( one of my 12+ tonearms ) and already hear the UP4 in my system. Third: I hear all those cartridges ( six of them in my system. I own 20+ cartridges )here we have to include ( I forgot. Big mistake ) the Denon DLS1 for $ 1,200.00. Fourth, I know very well five of those TT because I tested on my system.
Now, I put both tonearms because any one can choose in a different price level: UP4: 850.00 against DP6: 1,300.00 ( standard headshell. It works great. No problem ).
Why so many alternatives/combinations? ( and as you know, there are more ones ): first because the budget, $5k/$6k and second because our musical bias/differents audio systems/differents rooms.
Now if I have to blend these items for one or two differents analog rigs, here it is:

Sumiko Celebration....: $ 1,500.00 Denon DLS1..$1,200.00
Moerch DP6............. 1,300.00 Moerch DP6.. 1,300.00
Acoustic Sig.Final Tool 2,400.00 Final Tool...2,400.00

Total: $ 5,200.00 $ 4,900.00

These two cartridges ( in this analog system ), the Transfiguration Spirit Mk3 and the Allaerts MC1ECO, beats the Shelter 501MK2 and the 901 ( I own both along with the 90X ). The Dynavector and the Van den Hul are very near of them.
Any of the TT's are a great performers, if you ask me that I choose another , I will be happy ( too ) with the Transrotor.

Artar1: I don't support to any manufacturer, like you already told me about Acoustic Signature, I support always to the Music.
If you go to the AS web site: www.acoustic-signature.com, you can learn about these TT's, for example their bearing is a dry one: no oil bearing ( very interesting ), the platter of the Final Tool has a weight of 11 kg and they use not a belt drive on it but only a simple thread, and the motor, power supply and facilities, put right on the top. Try it, at that price it is a great bargain and very hard to beat ( I think almost imposible. ) for less than 10,000.00 TT price range ( other than AS Mambo/Analogue One MK2 ).

BTW, and this for other thread. Right now any one can buy great cartridges/tonearms/TT on the Audiogon clasiffieds, examples:

Benz micro Ruby2 for: 1,300.00 ( one of my favorite cartridges ).
Ortofon Jubillee ( new ), only: 800.00
Spirit MK3 ( new ): 1,050.00
Van den Hul ONE Special: 700.00
Van den Hul Colibri ( a bargain ): 1,800.00

Tonearms:

Naim Aro: 1,300.00
Wilson benesch Act One: 1,200.00
Micro Seiki Max 237: 1,500.00
Ikeda IT-407: 1,800.

Any of these tonearms beats your OL choice and many of the tonearms that have the people in this thread. Yes, they are second hand, but for a very small fraccion of their prices you can be on the top.. My experience tell me that there is no problem with that or at least I have luck in many ocassions.

Regards and always enjoy the music.
Raul.

Artar,

I think what's going to happen between these tables is going to come down to value. I have a feeling that I am going to end up owning a Teres when all is said and done. The Galibier is pushing the price envelope and while I am looking to get a package deal with the same arm I think that it's likely that the performance will be so close that the extra $$$ of the Galibier will push me into the Teres. But who knows, I could be blown away.
I am extremely torn about the aesthetics of these two tables though. The Galibier was my initial preference but there is something a little more natural about the Teres tables. Luckily I'll have to let the value vs performance angle make that decision for me.
I got into an argument with my brother today because his dream table is a Linn and while I think they are fine tables I have never heard one sound as good as a lot of other tables I have heard. That I don't even consider the Linn put him off. I think that he's got Stereophile Stars in his eyes and tends to take too much of what they say for "truth". I have nothing against what they publish (though I do think they make some major gaffes) but I think that there is a larger data set to collect from forums such as this and the 'asylum. My brother has not heard many tables so his view is more magazine dependent.
As we all know, it's dependent on so many system factors and preferences. I've done a lot of research and have made my choices and will be making my next steps soon. Perhaps I should go make that airline reservation now......
I recently got the reissue of Janos Starker playing Bach's Cello Suites and get all gooey thinking of what those will sound like on a world class table. Yow!
All in all I look forward to rediscovering a lot of records when I finally make the purchase.......