ARC Reference Phono vs. BAT VK-P10 SE

Rvlardon, i was staying away from this thread because it appeared you were limiting your choices to the ARC Ref Phono and the BAT VK10SE.

i had the BAT VK10SE in my room for about a week, 2 months ago. it was fully broken in and even had some NOS tubes that were said to be a significant improvement over stock. the BAT did nothing wrong but was not close to the refinement, detail and purity of my Lamm LP2 Delux. the BAT seemed kinda rough and vieled next to the Lamm. the BAT had slightly more bass slam than the Lamm but the Lamm was better at bass extention and micro-dynamics.....the Lamm sounded more real. this was with 3 different cartridges.

i have heard both the Manley and the ARC Ref; although not in my room. the Manley is far superior to the ARC Ref. in similar ways that the Lamm is better than the BAT. i have not compared the Manley and the Lamm but plan to shortly......they are easily the class of this price range (i owned the Aesthetix Io for 2 years).

i use the Lamm thru a Placette passive RVC and feel that or the Manley used direct is the way to go.

i completely agree with Gladstone that you should seriously consider the Manley (or the Lamm) and forget about the ARC and BAT (and lose the ARC Ref II pre which is only getting in the way).

Gladstone and i are not trying to frustrate you but are trying to save you some learning curve time we have already spent.

in any case, good luck.

Mike, thanks for the very thoughtful response. I will take it under consideration. (no sense in throwing $2K at something if that is not the preferred answer) and given the rest of this system. I will try to get a hold of a Lamm and/or Manley prior to a final decision. Bob.

Mike/Gladstone,

Since we are enlarging the scope of our phono preamp discussion, forgot to ask you guys what you think of The Groove, esp. since HP raved about it so much? Bob

The Groove is very good. Not as good the Manley. The Manley is extremely flexible which allows for optimal loading, accomplished easily, and is very, very fast, neutral--and musical. Like all tubed equipment, it's performance can be enhanced by replacing, in its case, the 6922s, which are most deficient. But even stock, it should outperform the other units you mention.

Also if you were to go the "direct" route or to replace the ARC Ref 2 with a Placette, you would not only come out ahead sonically, but also financially.