Do you think you need a subwoofer?

Raul,

Thank you for starting and supporting a truely informative and interesting disucssion. I just read the entire thread (not counting all the helpful links, yet). This is a great resource for those looking to further improve musical reproduction in the home.

We don't have a sub (or subs) yet, and space constraints may prevent us from adding any, unless we buy a bigger house or add a music room to the existing one. Putting two subs in front of our speakers (or anywhere) would be impossible. There would be no space left to walk through the living room.

The most we could do at present would be to add a single sub, and it would have to go in one particular corner, behind and outside the right speaker. There's a foot or two to play with but that's about all.

Do you think that would be worth the expense and trouble? Another factor to consider is our very lively suspended wood floor, which already sends too much energy into the equipment rack. Lightening the load on the amp and main speakers makes excellent sense, but shaking the electronics and turntable with alot of LF energy doesn't. Help!

Thanks,
Doug

You're right, Doug....

I don't own an equipment rack or isolation system yet, so I actually have to place my turntable down below in the dining room and use long IC's to get it away from LF energy right now. When notes hit those room mode frequencies, the panel in my fire place starts to buzz and the windows vibrate.

So, it's not really worth it(using TT) for me until I get a good rack and room treatments. Getting up to run downstairs every 20 minutes or less is beyond silly.

But, having said all that, the difference a sub (or subs) make in the texture of bass and midrange is astounding. My main speakers are similar to yours in FR(~40-36kHz). Though, in reality, I'd bet you've got a lot more 40-60Hz output than mine.

Anyway, everything is much more fleshed out. There's just so much more "body" to instruments and vocals it is surprising. Not in a "slam" or "punch" style, but the actual resonance of the instrument. Tonality and texture have jumped into the next league.

I can't speak to spatial information yet because of my room problems, so others will have to jump in for that. But, suffice it to say, I cannot stand to listen to my mains anymore without the subs. They sound weak and anemic in comparison.

Pretty surprising considering two weeks ago I thought they did a terrifc job of producing deep, tight, bass for horns. I still do, though nothing close to what I've got now.

But, since you've already said in your system description that the Salamander Synergy Triple 20 is "Too resonant for a serious audiophile, but looks nice in the LR", it's a safe bet that you'd have to get a new equipment stand or a lot of isolation platforms, blocks, rollers, pads, etc. Then, there's the inevitable room issues to keep you occupied for a good long while, especially with only on spot for sub placement.

Aaaw, screw it - go for broke! That's what this silly hobby is all about - spending money and chasing that last 5% of performance. You'll never know what your system is truly capable of until then(just joking).

Dear Doug: There are many critical subjects/issues for to have a better quality sound reproduction at home. The integration of two subwoofers in a true stereo way is one of the most critical subjects and where any body can hear the great improvement that we can achieve.
Almost ( before this thread ) no one on this forum talk in " deep " about this sub subject.

We all always are talking and looking for a better quality sound reproduction through our systems: TT, cartridges, tonearms, phono preamp, VTF,VTA, etc... , I think that the sub subject is more important and is time to care about and enjoy all their advantages.

No, I don't think that will be worth to add one sub to your system: you need " room ".

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Darkmoebius,

Thanks for the insights. Like you, if I can get another .03% for just $10-20K, I'm all for it! ;-)

Our rings-like-a-bell Salamander Synergy is (somewhat) isolated from the trampoline floor. Each of its eight feet is sitting on a heavy duty sorbothane hemisphere. The rack and all the equipment on it push the sorbothane to its designed load limits, so its benefits are pretty much maxed out. This does help, but a quieter rack on a solid floor would help alot more. I'm afraid those will have to wait until my next lotto ticket comes in.

Raul,

Thank you for the honest answer, which I sort of expected. :-( With all the timing and phase integration issues, it only makes sense to have a sub for each main speaker, as close as possible. Otherwise you're risking sonic mud. Your description of all the work you did to place your subs was very eloquent.

I'm sure the one-sub, bass-is-not-directional idea was invented to sell subs for HT explosions, while keeping the decorator happy by not putting two more large boxes in the middle of the room.

If one sub isn't worth having, we'll just have to wait until the room grows a bit. :-(

It's funny. The cubic volume of air "seen" by our speakers is pretty large, 26 feet x 18 feet x 7.5 feet. Apart from the low ceiling that's probably more space than many speakers get. But the room layout is restrictive. There simply is no space near the speakers for subs, and no other way to arrange the room.

Some day...

BTW, is Hurricane Emily missing you? I hope no one close to you is affected.

Regards,
Doug

Doug

Dear Doug: Tks God Emily pass through our country ( twice ) with not many damage like everyone waiting for. Tks for ask.

regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.