Definitely go with two subs over one, and I wouldn’t recommend the XR11 for music because it’s ported, and especially the lower JL Audio subs have known reliability issues so I’d cross them off too. If it’s me I’d get two Rythmik F12G subs that are an outstanding value because they sell direct (made in Texas BTW), and a pair will only set you back $2400. Not only are these subs supremely musical but they’ll go down to a honest 14Hz, and Rythmik offers excellent customer service and a 45-day trial period (not including return shipping). This one’s a no brainer to me, and here’s a link with more info. Best of luck.
https://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12G.html
Looking for a new Subwoofer
I am looking to replace my Definitive Technology Supercube 6000 with a new subwoofer to augment my Fyne F-702 speakers. My listening room is about 13 x 22 ft with 8’ ceilings and an 8’ opening to the dining room to the left of the listening area. I try to avoid major products made in mainland China—in spite of their at times very good quality, and I have narrowed the brands down to Paradigm, Vandersteen, and JL Audio, specifically, a single Paradigm XR11 or dual Defiance X12s, the Vandersteen Sub Three with “required” crossover, and the JL Audio Fathom f110v2. My budget is about $4K, with the XR11 and Fathom right at that price, the dual X12s at about $3K, and the Vandersteen with required crossover at about $5300 (including two crossovers, as they are sold in pairs). I may be able to audition the Paradigms and the Vandersteen; a friend has told me the room correction software with the JL Audio sub is way behind that of the Paradigms. In light of the excellent advice I have received in this forum, I wonder if folks out there have had an experience with these subwoofers and what they might recommend. Many thanks.
28 responses Add your response
my 2 cents: everything about the Fyne F-702 screams that they go down to cover the bass frequencies (30Hz) and do it well. To add a sub to those without massive overlap is challenging. You either cut off the lows of a full range speaker with crossover control or you double the lows almost all the way, both are questionable approaches. I would get the least powerful 10" or 12" subs (2) and see if they improve anything. I spent a year trying different approaches until I successfully dialed them in. I ended up ditching the crossover and turning down the subs to 85Hz and very low gain. They just add a subtle accent to the lows, helping with the soundstage, but helping a lot. |
my 2 cents:
@grislybutter There’s almost nothing I agree with here. “The least powerful sub?” Really??? If you position a good sub(s) properly and set the crossover, volume, and phase with any care whatsoever then good subs can blend seamlessly with most all speakers. That the speakers go down to 30Hz is totally irrelevant. 🙄 My speakers go down to 28Hz (-3dB) and I can easily integrate my “lowly” SVS SB2000 sub completely seamlessly. If you can’t do that then you really just don’t know what you’re doing IME.
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For Soix, I checked the Paradigm website, and it states that it is a sealed sub. However, many thanks for the link, and they look pretty good, so I will have to check them out as they are made here in the USA and are very reasonably priced. Now, to convince the wife about putting two in the front room. Thanks again, as usual, your advice is good. Time to hunt down some reviews. |
+1 @soix re: the Rythmik F12G subs. I am also a happy owner of a pair of these, and I think they are awesome value for the money. Made in Texas. |
These are the best bang for your buck subwoofers you can buy that will destroy any any subs above its price range. These are extreme subwoofers. I am not joking around. These things eat Klipsch for breakfast and destroy new build homes for lunch. You want your pictures to fall off the walls and your glasses to rattle in your kitchen and you have found the subs for you. You can put two of these in your home for your budget and if you're not happy, they will return them for your money back. If you're not happy I'll buy them. They are that good. I have to dial mine back in a huge room to about 40% just for the WAF Factor And even then there is some serious vibrations taking place. These are great for home theater and two channel. Made in the good old USA in Anaheim, California and I have been there a couple of times and auditioned their subwoofers. These guys have been around for a few decades and are some of the best. Sub-builders in the United States. I I'm not a pro of speakers but I know my subs and this is as good as anybody could ask for. Check them out. Read the reviews. You'll be convinced on those alone. |
Ive owned my fair share of subs over the decades. Most are over-hyped for what we really need a sub/s for Check these out https://verafiaudiollc.com/products/vanguard-caldera-12-active-subwoofer |
i would go w GR research dual open baffle servo subs either a DIY kit if you have build skills or already made multiple subwoofer home theaters. The benefits include: ► more even bass distribution across the seating area ► better seat to seat consistency for more effective EQ ► more output and LF coupling factor for deep extended bass response Ever wonder why some AV receivers have only one subwoofer output while others have two or more? How do you determine if the dual subwoofer outputs are independent or parallel and why does that matter? We discuss all of this in this video and show you with measurements why it’s so important to get the proper time alignment in a multi-sub system. Multi-Subwoofer Set Up & Calibration •Choose your subs wisely-preferably all identical subs or subs with near equal f3 (3dB rolloff) points •Place your subs wisely-in home theater rooms, nothing is more important for achieving good bass than proper placement of your subwoofers and listening seats Multi-Subwoofer Set Up & Calibration •Make sure all your subs are playing the identical signal -all of your subs should be playing a mono signal that consists of summed bass from all speakers set to "Small" plus LFE info •Setup bass management-in your A/V processor/receiver, set all speakers to small, use 80Hz crossover setting as a start, and defeat the internal LPF of all of your subwoofers the common question of whether or not you can mix sealed and ported subs into your home theater system and get good bass. I discuss the problems in doing this and how to overcome them to ensure you get good bass integration and avoid losing very low frequency response due to phase cancellations. Many good YT videos on the topic! https://youtu.be/xo2xkjJ_-zk?si=iiUQTqK81djMtHaB https://youtu.be/w1LG1m1tR8w?si=a2vvxTyS46b6vxQk https://youtu.be/ypQu4FncAjk?si=t7sXlonDb-dLpBrY https://youtu.be/8XE1JsfqKtA?si=pjR9cPiF-RJXvXBz https://youtu.be/CbAO4-F5Ejo?si=erIyC3pXTW-ea0TP https://www.youtube.com/live/qxKRinIaGnc?si=w6fHQrNid6jkI8D9 https://youtu.be/7ieX40Ktaxs?si=ZSNaLN4w_m8vdChN
World Class Subwoofer KitsOur Open Baffle Subwoofers use Direct Servo Technology and offer the quickest, cleanest bass that money can buy. There is no other subwoofer system that will give you this level of control and customization.
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@quickjack1234 wrote: "multiple subwoofer... benefits include: ► more even bass distribution across the seating area ► better seat to seat consistency for more effective EQ ► more output and LF coupling factor for deep extended bass response" Agreed, and ime another benefit is significantly smoother in-room bass response. "Smooth" bass is "fast" bass because it is the in-room peaks which take longer to decay into inaudibility. Rooms effects are far greater than the variations between different high quality subwoofers one might choose between, so addressing the room interaction issue is addressing the thing that matters by far the most, from a sound quality standpoint. @quickjack1234 again: "Multi-Subwoofer Set Up & Calibration... •Place your subs wisely-in home theater rooms, nothing is more important for achieving good bass than proper placement of your subwoofers and listening seats" Agreed, and I’d like to suggest a distributed multi-sub placement strategy. I suggest deliberately asymmetrical positioning such that each sub is interacting with the room in a significantly different way, and the sum of their multiple dissimilar peak-and-dip patterns will be smoother bass throughout the room. The following is one possible placement strategy, drawing from Earl Geddes’ thoughts on the subject: Place one sub in a corner; place the second and third subs along each of the two walls opposite that corner; and if there is a fourth sub, place it not too close to any of the others, and not symmetrically with respect to any of the others. Bonus points if you are able to elevate one of the subs closer to the ceiling than to the floor, as this distributes the bass sources in all three dimensions. Two subs intelligently distributed are smoother than one; three subs intelligently distributed are smoother than two; and so forth. Duke dealer/manufacturer |
Go with two of the Vandersteen subs. Two are the minimum. Never consider just one. IMHO the problem for most commercial subwoofers is their enclosures. When auditioning a subwoofer put your hand on it, any vibration or shaking you feel is distortion. Martin Logan and KEF make "balanced force" subwoofers that are quieter. Another problem is the use of plain low pass filters for crossing over. A complete 2 way crossover removes bass from the main speakers lowering distortion |
i would go w GR research dual open baffle servo subs either a DIY kit if you have build skills or already made multiple subwoofer home theaters. The benefits include: ► more even bass distribution across the seating area ► better seat to seat consistency for more effective EQ ► more output and LF coupling factor for deep extended bass response Ever wonder why some AV receivers have only one subwoofer output while others have two or more? How do you determine if the dual subwoofer outputs are independent or parallel and why does that matter? We discuss all of this in this video and show you with measurements why it's so important to get the proper time alignment in a multi-sub system. Multi-Subwoofer Set Up & Calibration •Choose your subs wisely-preferably all identical subs or subs with near equal f3 (3dB rolloff) points •Place your subs wisely-in home theater rooms, nothing is more important for achieving good bass than proper placement of your subwoofers and listening seats Multi-Subwoofer Set Up & Calibration •Make sure all your subs are playing the identical signal -all of your subs should be playing a mono signal that consists of summed bass from all speakers set to "Small" plus LFE info •Setup bass management-in your A/V processor/receiver, set all speakers to small, use 80Hz crossover setting as a start, and defeat the internal LPF of all of your subwoofers the common question of whether or not you can mix sealed and ported subs into your home theater system and get good bass. I discuss the problems in doing this and how to overcome them to ensure you get good bass integration and avoid losing very low frequency response due to phase cancellations. Many good YT videos on the topic! https://youtu.be/xo2xkjJ_-zk?si=iiUQTqK81djMtHaB https://youtu.be/w1LG1m1tR8w?si=a2vvxTyS46b6vxQk https://youtu.be/ypQu4FncAjk?si=t7sXlonDb-dLpBrY https://youtu.be/8XE1JsfqKtA?si=pjR9cPiF-RJXvXBz https://youtu.be/CbAO4-F5Ejo?si=erIyC3pXTW-ea0TP https://www.youtube.com/live/qxKRinIaGnc?si=w6fHQrNid6jkI8D9 https://youtu.be/7ieX40Ktaxs?si=ZSNaLN4w_m8vdChN multiple subwoofer home theaters. The benefits include: ► more even bass distribution across the seating area ► better seat to seat consistency for more effective EQ ► more output and LF coupling factor for deep extended bass response Ever wonder why some AV receivers have only one subwoofer output while others have two or more? How do you determine if the dual subwoofer outputs are independent or parallel and why does that matter? We discuss all of this in this video and show you with measurements why it's so important to get the proper time alignment in a multi-sub system. Multi-Subwoofer Set Up & Calibration •Choose your subs wisely-preferably all identical subs or subs with near equal f3 (3dB rolloff) points •Place your subs wisely-in home theater rooms, nothing is more important for achieving good bass than proper placement of your subwoofers and listening seats Multi-Subwoofer Set Up & Calibration •Make sure all your subs are playing the identical signal -all of your subs should be playing a mono signal that consists of summed bass from all speakers set to "Small" plus LFE info •Setup bass management-in your A/V processor/receiver, set all speakers to small, use 80Hz crossover setting as a start, and defeat the internal LPF of all of your subwoofers the common question of whether or not you can mix sealed and ported subs into your home theater system and get good bass. I discuss the problems in doing this and how to overcome them to ensure you get good bass integration and avoid losing very low frequency response due to phase cancellations. Many good YT videos on the topic! https://youtu.be/xo2xkjJ_-zk?si=iiUQTqK81djMtHaB https://youtu.be/w1LG1m1tR8w?si=a2vvxTyS46b6vxQk https://youtu.be/ypQu4FncAjk?si=t7sXlonDb-dLpBrY https://youtu.be/8XE1JsfqKtA?si=pjR9cPiF-RJXvXBz https://youtu.be/CbAO4-F5Ejo?si=erIyC3pXTW-ea0TP https://www.youtube.com/live/qxKRinIaGnc?si=w6fHQrNid6jkI8D9 https://youtu.be/7ieX40Ktaxs?si=ZSNaLN4w_m8vdChN World Class Subwoofer KitsOur Open Baffle Subwoofers use Direct Servo Technology and offer the quickest, cleanest bass that money can buy. There is no other subwoofer system that will give you this level of control and customization.
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Four cabinet Bass Array systems go low and provide an unparalleled room lock while using less power and EQ with minimal location restrictions. Most if not all -3dB subwoofers require standing wave bass mode room (crawl test) positions to providing them the least restrictive path within the room allowing full advantage of their delicate extra low frequency presentation. These are typically side wall locations. Another point to consider. Using one costlier processor equipped subwoofer as a master to control less expensive basic models or brands.
Any brand -6dB unit is a sub-bass speaker. Like the -3dB subwoofer they will augment your main speakers mid 30Hz region at the expense of the subwoofers delicate sub sonic presentation present on most recordings. Because of the -6dB sub-bass speakers dramatic low frequency roll off they simply do not excite a rooms standing wave bass modes. This gives them the convenient ability to be located most anywhere in the room with just a volume adjustment. All the best with you search. |
@mike4597 You didn't mention if you liked your Definitive Technology sub. If so, it would make sense to look at the GoldenEar SuperSub XXL ($2750) or two of the SuperSub X's ($1750 EA).
I'm also in the market for a new sub. I've only owned Velodyne subs for the last 30 years; so, I understand the curiosity and desire to try something new. Best of luck in your search. |
Rythmik are great subs that I've heard in numerous systems/ rooms. Doesn't mean they are for everyone or that a single sub heard once was set up well. I know someone struggling to get bass in his room trying different subs, up to 4 subs, room treatments, modifying room, and experimenting now with room correction, and still currently struggling. Despite hearing the Rythmiks match up well with my very articulate and natural sounding Daedalus speakers, I decided to order a pair of Daedalus passive subs with Daedalus external crossover. I will definitely keep the Rythmiks for another system, but am anticipating being very impressed with Daedalus BOW subs. I try to buy used when I can like I did with my Daedalus speakers, but never see these up for sale used. Doesn't hurt that when looking for WAF for dual subs that you are getting beautiful real hard wood finished to your specifications. |
dont forget POWER SOUND AUDIO... made in OHIO |
@grislybutter What the hell does this even mean??? Making up your own little language might be fun for you in your own strange world, but to the rest of us it’s just meaningless and helpful to no one. 🙄 |
What model did you hear, and what kind of gear was feeding it? How was it tuned? WAS it tuned? They are highly adjustable, but if the owner is clueless on how to set them up properly, then I'm sure they're capable of sounding just "okay" or worse. The "infatuation" you speak of is for good reason, IMO. |
We are partial to SVS subwoofers in particular the model SB-4000 because it is the least expensive unit in their line with balanced XLR inputs. Room size, your listening habits and aesthetics will dictate the best subwoofer(s) size. Especially on long runs if possible drive these with a balanced output(s). A major factor in subwoofer performance is proper integration using high and low pass filters for the mains and sub respectively. Here is our video discussing subwoofer integration: Subwoofer Integration that Energizes Your Stereo System |
