Do you think you need a subwoofer?

Raul, you said, " unfortunatelly the main thread subject is not about bass!"

The title of the thread is "DO YOU THINK YOU NEED A SUBWOOFER?"

Is that a contradiction? If it is not about bass, what is it about? It sure as hell ain't about muffins!

Raul you said in one of your first posts in this thread;
" remember that we use subwoofers not only for a better and extended low bass but for a better midrange/midbass too."

"better quality low bass ( you can have at least one more octave ) and mid bass ( quantity? : you choose it: volume/gain ) ). Now we can heard the " foundation " of the MUSIC ( and its harmonics )"

You also said, "Now you can really know how good ( or not ) is not only your audio system but any single audio item: cartridge/tonearm/cables/TT/preamp/amplifier/CD, and now you can detect any sound reproduction performance problems in those audio items and try to fixed/exchange: now and only now ( not before ) you can say " this is the best cartridge or tonearm or SUT ,etc.. " that I ever heard."

I am pretty sure that is exactly what I said just a couple of posts ago, "And I am hoping you are not testing the tonearm on a system that you have no clue as to what it is doing. Because if you say the low bass is great with the new arm, how would you (and me) know? When you are not even reproducing low bass?"

So Raul What is this post about?

Bob

Yes Raul,I guess you cannot gain any further insight from me,so I will not post,here,on the subject.
Best.

Hi Raul, I have taken this to my thread "In room response".

Please read and I look forward to your response. Here is the link for the photo in "my systems", http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1209483707.jpg

I look forward to discussing this in my forum.

Bob

Dear Sirspeedy: I think that you are a little " angry " with me, maybe because my last post to you: please let me explain a little about because what I went to say was wrong " writed ":

- about Sid of course that I care about him and it is so good to know that he is a bass " fanatic " ( because, IMHO , the music foundation belongs to that frequency range. ).
I say that the main thread subject is not about bass ( at least not in the old traditional way. ) but other critical advantages where the subs are involve so the bass " fanatic " subject can't help us.

- Avalon speakers: I want to tell you how Avalon ( along other names. ) help me to almost start my growing-up on the high-end audio/music home entertainment.

Many years ago ( when appear the Ascent/Eclipse/Avatar Avalon line ) it happens that in those times here in México start the true dealer/distributor high-end " boom ". Many of those dealers and audiophiles of those times are one of my best friends today.

We ( audiophiles ) were extremely enthusiastic people with a " hungry " to learn and discovery the true high end world, almost of all of us achieve that goal in more/less manner.

We obtain a very friendly support from every high-end dealer ( six of them ) and we attend almost every single day ( like a group. ) to its show rooms where we not only heard music over different systems but where some one speaks to the group on different music/sound reproduction topic.

Well, Fredy ( a very wealthy person ) was a heavy enthusiastic dealer from Avalon/Rowland/Accuphase, / ASC/ VTL/etc, he had three different show rooms ( between others including home theater ones. ) only for Avalon/Rowland: Ascent, Eclipse and Avatar room.

All those rooms were tested/approved by Avalon ( Neil Pattel. ), well we goes there two three times a week to heard those audio system but not only to heard it but to test different options: amps, preamps, cables, speaker position, etc, etc. So I really go in deep with Avalon and through its " magic " I fall in love with the high end " stage ".

Neil comes several times to Mexico and in two ocassions he give us all the in deep Avalon design goals, he " naked " his Ascent ( including crossover ) and explain everything about.
Then comes with the MK2 Ascent version and change its original design.

So Avalon is a name that I have in very good shape for its high build quality and high quality performance but that big external crossover was a disadvantage for its speaker manufacturer and in commercial way and they change it to improve: they achieve its improvement goals? only the Avalon's owners could be answer from sure.

When we see for the first time that big crossover all of us ( with out heard the speakers ) were impressed for say the least but over the years I learn that sometimes " less is more " in audio.
I don't try in my last post in any way to say that your Avalons are not good speakers because I know it very well and are good ones.

Thank you for your understanding. No, you don't have to answer.

regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Well Raul,the actual reason why Avalon stopped adding this crossover to future designs was due to it's extensive cost/wife acceptance factors/additional crating/shipping costs,amongst other factors...Not performance limitations!..Sometimes I believe you are way too analytical,to the detriment of "musical performance"!

This is a topic I have discussed with quite a few "industry" folks,including the "new" folks at Avalon,and the response I have gotten was,in exact words..."We had forgotten just how good that speaker sounds"!And that was from experience with the equipment of the "yesterday era".With today's top equipment the performance is unrivaled,IMO.One reason why I hold on to them,and have made exceptional attempts to compare to other designs!

I assure you(a guarantee,actually)you have NO idea what the Ascent MK-II is capable of with "today" equipment,but I am sure you will post something "negative".

In truth,the complexity and design of the crossover is the absolute "strength" of the design,which is a "fact"(and I have "extensively" looked into this),but I know I am banging my head against a wall in trying to convince you of "almost any audio matter",so let's just call it a day -:)

Good luck