Schroeder arms: order of merit?

Sirspeedy,
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First off, I enjoy your posts and don't take any offense. I think that they are well intended and keep me on my toes a bit. You do have a tendency to get a bit excited at times and maybe a bit too skeptical or perhaps cynical. I am happy with your demanding questions, but I think your cynicism (some of it is wise) gets the better of you.
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A few things for you to ponder:

Your time line is off on my recommendations for the Schroder. I have heard the Schroder Reference in my system on two separate occasions. The first time was in June of 2004 and the second time was in March of 2005. I started talking about the Schroder in any real level of detail after the March 2005 get- together.
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I got into the concept of adjusting the Damping fluid 9 months ago (October of 2004 to be exact) when I read a thread that you and David (4Yanx) participated in. In December of 2004, I along with Doug Deacon and Paul worked on my system for a long weekend (2 full days) playing with the damping fluid and the VTA in my system). So, I was already on board with the benefits of the damping fluid well before our March 2005 get together and before all of my fawning over the Schroder Reference. I also was able to listen extensively to the Schroder Reference in January 2005 in another system.

Here is David’s (4yanx) thread where I first started getting involved in playing with the damping fluid in my Graham 2.2. Ironically, you also posted on the same post after I did.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1096560646&read&keyw&zzdamping=fluid

I also was out championing the value of finding the correct damping fluid in February of 2005 which you might recall since you and I interacted on the same thread on this subject

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1108179762&read&keyw&zzdamping=fluid

On the UNIverse comment about me being ubiquitous with offering my opinions about how great the UNIverse is: I have limited my comparison comments only about cartridges which I have heard and specifically in my own system. I am over the moon about the UNIverse in that it has made the biggest difference in my system of any change that I have made in the last couple of years. I also have a friend who had the same experience with having his system transformed by the addition of the UNIverse.

I have been passionate about a few components and tweaks that I think are wonderful in the hopes that I am able to help fellow audiogon members take the shortest route in getting to audio heaven. If you poke through my postings you will find that I also am a big advocate of cryoing, Teres Turntables, Symposium Rollerblocks and Supratek Pre-amps. You could make the same assertion that I carry the torch for those products in addition to the UNIverse and Schroder Reference.

Thank you for the apology but it was not necessary. The only reason you are obnoxious at times is that you live in the New Jersey / New York area. Now that I don't live in New York, I am not obnoxious and can help you mend your ways. I agree with you that Frank was way too nice to you and really should take you over the coals a few times (just for my own enjoyment).

Regards,
Larry

I stand corrected!!But,you will, all, hear from me another day!!BTW-My Siemens CCa gamble,acquired for my phono section(3 rediculously low noisers,that replaced the wonderful Ediswans)turned out to be a great move.I absolutely HAD to have them,as I had NEVER seen tubes test this low in noise,EVER!!Went for my lungs too,actually I only had to sell a kidney,but,got good money for it,and don't really pee as much in tennis season anyway.My only system tubes are the three in this phonostage,and I have tried 8 differing types,with this being the Triple Crown Winner!!I,actually,NOW know how you feel about the Univ.,as of this point in time.

Got to go now,it's time to dress the wound from the surgery.I may also be willing to sell a lung,in the future if I can acquire some Amperex "pinched waist" variety,that test as low in noise as these CCa's.You should hear my beloved "handbell" reference disc now.Talk about resolving power,and with a crappy Transfiguration,to boot.What body part do you think a Univ is worth?

OK-I'm really going now...........

Floating your Speedy Boat ... Hi Speedy,

I could have been a bit more clear in my description of my year long experience with the 2.2. My take on Bob and his tonearms is that:

(1) Bob Graham is a very gifted engineer
(2) He has an aesthetic vision and knows how to reach his goal
(3) His aesthetic sense does not quite match my sensibilities
(4) He is a great guy

Perhaps I should be selling his arms too, because I in no way want to dictate my taste upon others.

To give you a bit of background, my musical tastes go all over the map - from small chamber music, 20th Century String Quartets, Bluegrass / Newgrass (and their spin-offs), Caribbean Jazz, 60's West Coast Rock (The Airplane and the Dead), and more ...

My system is oriented around single ended triodes and horns, although I'm not by any means married to this architecture ... I'm married to music, and find that the sound of good products tends to converge around a central point - irrespective of their design architecture. I think for example that my turntables share many of the virtues of the great rim drive 'tables of the past.

I emphasize replacing every capacitor in the signal path of my electronics with iron (transformers), as I've found the sound to be more pure, direct, and immediate. I do not however favor a false or etched sound, as I'm certain no one in this discussion does. The sound of an interstage transformer (a good one) to my ears, and everyone in my listening group strips away layers of murk in comparison to even Audionote sliver capacitors, while at the same time affording excellent isolation between amplification stages. Enough of the geek stuff ...

Last year, I brought my turntable fitted with a Graham 2.2 and Denon DL 103R over to a friend's house. I tend to not travel with expensive cartridges. I think a good turntable with a good arm, does not need a top flight cartridge to strut its stuff - as long as the cartridge matches the arm, of course. In the same way, I consider a vacuum tube circuit that depends on rare, expensive tubes to sound good be an unacceptable design. The circuit should sound good with run of the mill JJ Teslas, Sovteks, etc. Of course it will sound better with rare, fine tubes, but it should not depend on them.

This fellow had sold his Graham 2.2 because it sounded too lean 'n mean for his tastes in the context of his system balance. As an aside, he (Grant Gassman on my owners' page) owns a Dynavector XV-1 - an incredible cartridge which could tempt me away from a ZYX. The Graham 2.2 on my rig in his system actually had more "muscle" than Grant's rig and he commented that he would never have sold his 2.2 had it sounded like this.

My 'table has something to do with this, but that's a whole 'nuther story. The point of the above diatribe, that I've lived with a 2.2 and have a good idea about how to set it up, and impressed a former owner of the arm - a highly discriminating individual.

The 2.2 is an expression of a fine man who's vision is not quite in sync. with my musical aesthetic. It's an arm which I can envision many people being extremely happy with. I'd love to hear the Phantom, and from comments I've heard, it is a continuing improvement of the breed. One hates to predispose oneself to supposition and prognostication, but my guess is that I'll walk away from the experience with continued respect for Bob's designs while still not considering it to be quite my cup of tea. But then again ... I could be wrong.

Yes ... the Robin is underpriced for the sonic goods it delivers - Art Dudley's opinion notwithstanding.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

Thom,PLEASE!I'm happy that you are a confident and successful(not to mention nice guy)audio/music lover/dealer!!The fact is that all of these fine products could probably satisfy any of us.Based on your comments,and your not carrying the 2.2,as well as you claiming that it's musical aesthetic does not appeal to you,I stand by my original thoughts!Believe me,I'm not one who is rushing to the defense of something I own,that gets a bad rap from someone.I really don't care,but I do know when I'm being played,"just a bit"!And that's OK.As for the NOS tube "swipe",I was merely expressing an enthusiastic "moment".Of the 8 different tube type/families I've tried,in my phonostage,5 were superb!I could have lived with any of them,but you probably knew that.The new ones,simply happen to appeal to my tastes,not my psyche!You probably knew that too,but got a bit of a "RUSH" trying to knock me down.Though very politely.Thanks!I have no problem with that,as this forum is sort of fun when we take some liberties,in baiting oneanother.

A good tube circuit WILL sound better with better tubes.Some people are content with "run of the mill" tubes.I have never spent big money on NOS tubes,other than the three,recently,and since it was only THREE,it was not all that expensive,especially when you(of all people)take into account the costs of cartridges/tables/arms.Even the lower cost ones.How much does your table cost??So,who are we trying to kid,about a tube circuit,in a set-up that contains fine products(like the ones you sell)being deprived of the finest available support.I'll bet your turntable customers would like a BIT MORE!I've tried the Sovtek's,that you seem to like,and they were not for me,or my friend,who has my exact unit.

Also,it is fine if you really believe that a "good turntable and arm" do NOT need a top flight cartridge,but they sure sound a LOT better with one.Unless you have a tube phonostage with run of the mill Sovteks!Best of luck!!

Also,PLEASE understand that my comments are made with tongue firmly implanted in "cheek",so don't hunt me down,I have kids.

Thom_mackris

Sir, with due respect, it seems that you are predisposed to being dismissive of the Phantom without the benefit of an audition. I find your tone patronizing if not condescending to Mr. Graham, who I am, sure, is perfectly capable of defending his products. I happen to own the Phantom, which “I consider to be quite my cup of tea”.