Schroeder arms: order of merit?


For a long time I have been tempted by the elegant designs of Herr Schroeder, but, having missed the collapse of the dollar, I now find myself totally priced out of the market for the "Reference" arm. So, the question is, what are the relative merits of the Model 1 (if it still exists), the "DPS," and the "Reference." Surely some Audiogon aficionados will have tried all three and will have informed opinions. If so, please let the world at large know your conclusions. And, equally to the point, how do these arms compare with the Graham 2.2 and "Phantom," the Triplanar, and other highly regarded designs. The cartridge I now use is a Myabi, and my turntable is a Verdier Platine. I realize, of course, that "Comparisons are odorous."
lapaix
Just yesterday I had an opportunity to hear a Schroder Reference and the Graham Phantom on the same turntable (Teres 360). They were fitted with different cartridges (Lyra Olympus on the Schroder and a Koetsu Tiger eye platinum with a diamond cantilever in the Phantom). There was not enough time to switch cartridges so we were not able to do a true apples to apples comparison. However, I did form some opinions that others may find useful. Remember I said OPINIONS so please, no flames.

From what I heard the Phantom appears to be big improvement over the 2.2. I thought that the Schroder/Olympus
combination was clearly better overall. However, the gap was smaller than I would have expected. Reading between the lines a bit I suspect that the Schroder is still quite a bit ahead of the Phantom.

The Phantom has the same ease of setup as the 2.2 and great build quality. There was one small glitch with the setup. The Phantom has less lower VTA range than the 2.2. For this
particular setup there was only about 1/16" downward range left when it was dialed in. Odd that Bob would make a change in this parameter.

I would also like to confirm Cello's comments. I owned a Graham 2.2 for about 1-1/2 years and at the time it was my favorite, easily displacing an older Triplanar. However, it was completely out classed by the Schroder Reference. I spent considerable time with both arms so this was not just a quick comparison. This conclusion was confirmed twice during the well conducted comparisons that Cello has already discussed.

Albert: The setup for these evaluations were carefully done . No doubt all of the parameters were not dialed in to perfection, but they were close. Similar effort went into each tonearm setup so in my mind the playing field was even. If am arm needs hours of fine tuning to sound right then that should be considered to be a liability. That liability rightly should be part of the evaluation equation. Not that I think that came into play here, more of a philosophical point. Besides that magnitude of the differences we heard between each of the tonearms was much more than what could be explained by setup differences.

Gmorris: Love fest you say... Funny how this mantra often comes up when a group of people enthusiastically endorse a product. It would pay to ask why the "love fest" exists rather than dissing it. Maybe it is simply because the product is a good as it is claimed to be. I both recommend and sell Schroder tonearms. From a business perspective this is a poor practice. Many sales have been and are stalled waiting for a tonearm from heir Schroder. So what possible motivation could I have for recommending Schroder tonearms other than I think that they are the best choice for my customers. I have an arrangements to OEM Graham, Basis, Orign Live, Morch and Triplanar tonearms. All of these tonearms have better availability. I recommend Schroder tonearms because I believe in them. When I find a better tonearm, I will recommend it. No conspiracy here.
Teres,thanks SO much for the feedback.I find your comments extremely interesting,and will consider them at a future point.Though you do indicate there were two differing cartridges at play,I feel confident that you were able to extrapolate some meaningful results.That being said,I do wish you could report back,soon,as to a final comparison using the same cartridge.

Recently Michael Fremer,giving a RAVE review of the Phantom (which I'm sure is wonderful)stated that he could not get a Schroeder Ref for review,and went on to assume that this was because of the backlog in orders,and that a review could be taking a chance.While I understand this,and don't know the reasoning,I am fascinated as to what that potential review would be like!

Best regards!
Hi Lapaix,
as I needed a new TA for my H&P TT, I did some
Extensive test with a schroeder TA against my
existing Kuzma Airline.
I decided to by another Kuzma Airline.
In both TA I mounted the Myabi and the phono pre
were both Klyne 7 newest model.
So that the only diference is the TA.

Best regards
Karl-Heinz
Mr Teres:

I note that you have consistently recommended the Schroeder arms for your turntables. That's fine with me.
You have made a subjective determination based on the comparison of the two arms with different cartridges. Obviously, this is a flawed methodology of comparison: in order to make definitive statements about the relative performance of the Schroeder and the Phantom, it is imperative that the same TT/cartridge and front end/system are the same. Admittedly, it is entirely possible that the Schroeder may subjectively sound better on your TTs even with the same components/system. However, the opposite may be true in other systems. In audio there is virtually no absolute truth.
Gmorris: Of course the Reference/Phantom comparison was flawed. For this reason I was careful to not make any definitive statements about that comparison. I offered my opinions based on a less than ideal comparison, nothing more.

For my comments about the Schroder vs. 2.2 it's a different story. In that case the comparison conditions were about as good as you can get. There was clear consensus amoung a fairly large number of listeners. In addition the differences that we heard were obvious and significant.

The Triplanar vs Schroder comparison was a different story. I think that most of us favored the Schroder. But it was much more a matter of different vs good and bad. I expect that in a different system context or with different personal preferences the Triplanar may well have been favored. This was not the case with the Schroder vs 2.2 comparison. Regardless of personal perferences or system contex it's hard for me to imagine that anyone would favor the 2.2 over any of the Schroder models. It was not a subtle difference. It was not just a different presentation.

This whole debate seems odd to me. There is a group of people that have not heard a Schroder tonearm that bristle when they hear a claim that it is superior to the 2.2. I have yet to hear from anyone who has heard both and say anything different. Maybe I am wrong and someone will make the comparison and disagree. Thats fine. I just don't get the resistance to what seems like credible evidence.