2. analog
  3. 1123286793

Turntables New vs Used

Thought I would post this as possible food for thought. Have been in this hobby since 1957 and have owned a great many tables both new and used. My first audiophile table was a Dual 1019 and it has evolved from there.

I deal a lot in turntables both new and used, sort of a hobby business. With that in mind in recent years there has been several new tables to hit the market such as those from Music Hall,Project, and so on. Not all but most of the tables in the sub $1,000.00 range are just horrid to say the least. For what one pays in this category,one can find true stellar turntables in the used market.

Used tables from Sota,VPI and Rega will clearly outperform anything from Music Hall, Project and others.

This is not meant to disparage Music Hall or Project or others of the same category. But when one truly looks into what is available in the used market,it becomes readily apparent that the higher end used tables will sonically be superior to the new offerings.

I know for the last few months have had several of the Music Hall and Project tables as well as others come and go through the door.

To be candid there is no black art or voodoo science in turntable design. Physics and Geometry are basic law and are absolute with debate not being possible.

But many of these new tables have seem to have forgotton these basic laws and some of the new tables are pure dreck and I am being kind there.

Turntables from VPI,Sota,Rega,Nottingham,Bluenote,Clearaudio,JA Michell,and Simon Yorke offer tables that firmly place them among the best in the world,with sound engineering principles.

Plus the upgrade path is clearly there for future sonic improvements as materials and science come about.

In addition the price one will pay for one of the used tables make these some of the best bargains for today and tomorrow. However with all things used do make sure of whom you get it from and that you are getting what you pay for.

Don't overlook many of the excellent direct drive used tables from Denon,Kenwood,Yamaha,Technics and others. But do concentrate on thier upper end models forgoing the lower model line up.

All in all the current used market represents far greater value than most of the mass produced new tables.

For instance a Rega P3 is in my opinion is vastly superior to a Music Hall MMF 7 and at less cost, new price to new price. I know I have had both here in recent months. Used the Rega P 3 is a hands down winner in this category.

Both VPI and Sota are easily accessed via phone or e Mail and are most helpful in their product line.

The choice is yours and it is your money.
ferrari
psychicanimal
1,738 posts
 
Over the years have had way to many SL 1200 pass through the doors, no longer impresses me to value,sonics,build quality and the tone arm is in my opinion way outdated.

1) value

2) build quality

3) outdated tonearm

I've always read ignorant remarks about #3, but #1 & #2 are a first!

What is a 'current' tonearm in this price range? A Rega 250, RB600 perhaps? One 1200 modder who's an electrical engineer tried the 250 and the 600 Rega tonearms and went back to the stock "outdated" (but with excellent *published* bearing friction specs Technics tonearm. What the stock tonearm lacks is some control and the KAB fluid damper deals with the issue. The modded 1200 will smoke any belt drive you mentioned by far.

***
baranyi's avatar
baranyi
719 posts
 
Ferrari,what is your opinion of the Well Tempered tables that are floating around?
david12
1,454 posts
 
Many responders to Gon threads will be basically 2nd user enthusiasts, having come at the thread site through the for sale section. I am no exception and my whole system is 2nd user and ex dem. Responders have pointed out the problems with used turntables, well all items you might buy have problems. Top of the list is Cartridges of course, where any prior use makes a purchase questionable. That did'nt stop me buying a Koetsu Rosewood Signature and being thrilled with the purchase and saving(about 1/3 of the cost of a new unit in the UK). We are, or should be realistic about the risks of buying 2nd hand, but have calculated the saving is worth the risk.
Turntables should be a relatively safe bet, but being mechanical, I would agree the risk is in transport. It's easier in the UK, but I have always collected mine. To add my experience, I would not go for a Linn, which I used for years. IMHO, an old design off the current pace. There is an upgrade path, Cirkus, Lingo, trampoline etc, but it's expensive. To get the best out of them, they do need rebalancing periodically. even if not disturbed.
I would agree with many of the suggestions of tables to consider, but some other UK ones are not highlighted. Avid is a great company, with fine sounding, well engineered, fit and forget tables, again with a potential upgrade path. My own final choice is Origin Live, a Resolution with Illustrious arm. I know you can get better, but at what price. In the UK at least they are hard to beat value wise. I am aware the current Dollar rate makes UK/European kit very expensive in the US, so Origin Live is less of a bargain. For Classical gear, remember the rim drive Garrard 301 and 401, if they are available in the US, if replinthed they make an unbeatable sound, with the best base you may hear from vinyl.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,084 posts
 
Dear Ferrari: +++++ " it is difficult to reason a better product than the Simon Yorke S 7. " +++++

The first question that comes to my mind is: Why?

If we take the TTs that are out there we can find that many of them are really an excellent ones like the S7: Brinckman, Basis, Walker, SME, Acoustic Signature, Galibier, Pluto, Verdier, Micro Seiki, Avid, Transrotor, etc... and if we try to compare it that will be a very hard task for any one can tell us which is the real winner.

I think that at this performance TT levels there is no absolut winner, because this depends on many issues like: with what tonearm/cartridge combination?, with what kind of music?, in which audio system?, in which room?, with which quality " ears " ?, etc,.......

We can try to do a comparation of the TT only, asking for: build quality, rumble, wow and flutter, speed accuracy, vibration control, etc... and find a measurements winner TT.
Ferrari, your statement about the S7 is in reference to what or which are the why's for your statement.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
gmeiselsdf28
2 posts
 
Thanx for your comments on my beloved H/K T60.
If, however, I choose to retire my T60, should I buy a VPI Scout/Scoutmaster/Superscoutmaster, a Rega 9, Sota, or Nottingham? Or, do you suggest something else?
I like the Rega 9 and the Rega tonearm.
It is very basic looking, like my T60, and isn't too heavy.
I also am considering a better cartridge than my $300 Grado Platinum.
More to discover