2. analog
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battling the pops and clicks

I recently put together an vinyl rig (Nottingham Horizon w/Dynavector 10x5 and Whest phono stage) I am really liking the sound, and I see what all the talk is about for sure. This setup really gives my Ayre D1xe digital setup a run for the money, and if it weren't for the pops and clicks I think I would certainly prefer the sound overall. This is saying a lot considering the price gap between my digital and analog setup.

I have the VPI 16.5 and disc doctor brushes and cleaning fluids and have spent some time and effort to fully clean my records in an effort to eliminate all noise. I bought quite a few new 180 gram records so I would have a good idea of what sound vinyl has to offer. I also have plenty of dusty old records from years back, which is the real reason I wanted a turntable to begin with. As much as I work at cleaning the records, it seems no amount of work will eliminate the pops and clicks. The more I focus on trying to get rid of them the more it bugs me. It seems to happen just as much with the new records as the old ones.

What I'm wondering is, do I need a better table and cartridge if I expect to listen to records with total silence? Or what am I doing wrong with my current setup? I've followed the cleaning instructions very closely and even taken it a step further by adding additional rinsing cycles with distilled water. I've used stylus cleaner and of course always used the carbon fibre dry brush before playing, and clean sleeves too.

The cleaning has reduced the noise, pops and clicks greatly, but in my opinion, more is still there than I would consider acceptable. Is this something that you just learn to tune out from or is there a way to fix it completely?

thanks, -Ryan
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wc65mustang
524 posts
 
As I posted earlier my vinyl collection dates back to the 1950's. That being said, I've been very careful with my records since the very beginning. There are a couple principles that have guided me. First, not a single album has ever been played on any equipment other than my own. Selfish? OK I plead guilty to that. Second, I've made a dedicated effort to keep the records clean. With the advent of record cleaning equipment, it is much easier today than let's say, 30 years ago.
To address the points made by Lugnut and Elartford, there is surface noise in all vinyl. That comes with the territory. However all vinyl is not created equal. I have some spectacularly quiet vinyl from the 1960's and some noisy vinyl from the 1990's. In closing I don't find normal surface noise in any way, shape, or form detrimental to the listening experience. Actually I get a kick out of hearing "Another Side of Bob Dylan" (this is an entirely acoustic album BTW) sound so sweet with minimal surface noise after 40 years. All of course IMO.
inpepinnovations1e75
395 posts
 
Well Lugnut, I also lived through the LP period and took good care (and still do) of my records. Ticks and pops were a fact of life then and to mitigate I also used compensating devices, the Phase Linear Auto correlator being the primary one, which BTW, also adds another 10db of dynamic range to the dynamic range challenged LPs of that time and also, dare I say, to LPs of today.
I don't think that the "current status of analog" is any different than yesteryear, except for some improvements in cartridges and, vinyls of today are not any better made than those of 30 years ago (probably worse, in fact) and they still suffer from the same limitations of surface noise and dynamic range. I would also wager that most of the vinyl being produced these days are from a digital source and probably, at least, are quieter due to no tape noise - but the tics and pops are still there and the dynamic compression.
Bob P.
dougdeacon
3,338 posts
 
Nsgarch,

I've not seen a VdH stylus magnified. I'd expect better for the kind of prices they command.

The photo of the ZYX showed a clear gemstone, perfectly sculpted and cleanly affixed to the cantilever. No visible blobs of glue! It truly looked like a finely made instrument, even @ 200x. The micro-ridge edges were clearly visible.

The cantilever's top side wasn't shown, but eyeballing mine with a loupe reveals a slight projection above the top of the cantilever. Presumably the top end of the diamond(?). Interestingly, the stylus end of the cantilever has something like a tiny, cylindrical cap slip-fitted over it, extending a mm or so past the stylus. Something to secure the stylus I presume.

Damn, that stylus and cantilever cap are tiny! How DO they make these things? I'll bet it's the same micro-elves that assembled 921,600 pivoting mirrors on the postage-stamp-sized DLP chip that runs my TV. Amazing stuff.
nsgarch's avatar
nsgarch
2,524 posts
 
Doug, you wanna go to Japan and watch them make one? C'mon, it'll be fun!

Neil
lugnut
1,190 posts
 
Impepinnovations,

If the dynamic range, clicks, pops and general surface noise are so prevalent with current analog devices then why in the world isn't audiophiledom filled with opportunities to purchase these electronic correction products in today's market, now only new and improved? It seems every high end manufacturer must being missing a golden opportunity here. Never has an audiophile been in the sweet spot in my room and ever offered any criticism about dynamic range while listening to vinyl. In a scientific sense, yes there is some surface noise. But just like having to put my head close to a speaker to hear circuit noise, one would have to go to similiar extremes to hear surface noise from a seated listening postion. Yes, there are exceptions with some badly recycled vinyl or the occassional record that suffered some sort of permanent damage. Those are the exception however. You might also note that I was not attacking digital and have no problem with digital master tapes except records mastered from a digital source early on, say 1982-1989. If that recording sampling rate was put on a disk then the debate as to the superior format would be over.
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