What Turntable to buy under $600 ?

Rega P3's are often known to run about 1% fast. I find it kind of hilarious that the same people who claim they can hear unmeasurable "sonics" and "inner detail" are also the first to explain away that you can't hear a 1% speed difference. Or that this does not represent a lapse in engineering care.

Rega, of course, does not publish any measurements as far as speed, wow and flutter, or rumble for the P3 (or at least they didn't used to.) They want you to trust in "sonics".

Here's a reprint from a 1977 Gramaphone Magazine (UK) review of the Technics SP10:

"Insulation against outside vibrations or acoustic feedback was excellent. I tried repeating the loading demonstrations I had witnessed in Japan and elsewhere with this machine, of pressing down hard on a record with a Watts Preener or similar cleaning pad, and was again astonished to find that the speed remained true. Therefore a Dust Bug or extra heavy pickup would simply have no effect whatsoever on speed. Since the stroboscope in this machine, however superbly designed, is simply giving a reassuring indication that the platter rotation speed is in agreement with the quartz crystal derived drive, I felt it necessary to check with a separate stroboscope and our (hopefully accurate) mains supply. The result was complete agreement.

Measured drift was virtually zero and wow and flutter was so low, about 0.04 % peak weighted DIN, that I became persuaded that I was merely measuring the amount recorded on my test discs. Subsequently Roger Furness, of the UK agents for Technics, was kind enough to let me have a couple of lacquer test records specially cut to contain lower levels of inherent wow and flutter than is normally attainable. With these I found the SP10 Mk II to produce no more than 0.025% peak. Similarly for rumble measurements I tried all the usual test records and, though the lowest reading obtained was -48dB unweighted, this too was at the lowest limit of the discs' capability. As for mechanical noise, this turntable can best be described as silent: even with an ear close to the unit there is no audible running noise. I know of no unit which can beat this one for silent running."

Think a Rega P3 can match this? Or that it's inferior in all MEASURABLE aspects, yet for some mysterious reason sounds better? Then buy one.

Right,I guess I have 2 things to answer.Firstly as far as the Rega speed issue goes,they are aware of it and there is a little published fix for it that is Rega's official response.I have posted it before and it involves cleaning and replacement of the old oil with 2 DROPS ONLY of 80w/90 gear oil.The second cure is the tape fix around the outer edge of the sub-platter-both fixes I have posted before on this forum.I use the second and it works great.Next there is a thread on this forum that is 2,416 posts long about why idler-wheel drives "kill" belts.Please do some reading here as Jean explains it much better than I can.Suffice to say I am going to build a turntable.

Reread the post people. Under $600 (that must include a cartridge, or at least a new stylus if buying used). Not finicky, simple to setup.

I recommended the P3 because I own one, and properly setup it sounds great. I have not heard a KAB1200, but in the price range it would appear to be another contender.

How did we ever get onto idler wheels ? And tables that cost at least $1000 ?

Stefanl wrote:
>>If a table is suitable for broadcast and DJ duties would it not be already some way towards the goal of good sound reproduction?<<

Stanhifi replied:
>> Faulty logic. These tables were originally designed for bull work, heavy duty use, and durability not superior sonics. Hope that helps you understand. >>

The SL-1200mk2 was not initially built for DJing or 'bull work'. The fact that it has become _the_ standard DJ turntable is a testament to the quality and ruggedness of construction. The sonics of a DJ table is largely derived from the special DJ cartrigdes used - those are the ones you want to avoid!

- Harald

Like all threads, which are a form of conversation, the subject strays from the path, which is what makes it interesting. The least finicky and simple good-quality musical turntable for a beginner is the Rega P3, which might indeed be all the turntable anyone ever needs, and assorted similar designs such as the Projects and the MMFs. Also the Technics 1200s DD, which are also painless and easy to use and have an upgrade path provided by KAB, should the buyer ever decide he wants more (upgrades for the P3 are more along the lines of DIY tweaking). However, the Rega tonearms ARE superb, far better than "fair (better than the Rega turntables) but again, vastly over rated and even when rewired and modified, marginal performers at best". These are world-class tonearms with a different set of strengths and weaknesses to other and far more expensive alternatives, barring vintage: I much prefer them to the high-end SME tonearms, for instance. Idler-weel drives were abandoned for reasons which have nothing to do with sound quality and mostly to do with profit: it is FAR more expensive to produce a good-quality idler-wheel drive (or direct-drive for that matter) than to attach a dinky motor to a bearing via a rubber band. Nevertheless, the rubber band approach can yield good reproduction which far surpasses digital media in musically-important ways, and for a beginner wanting simplicity an elegant Rega P3 or Technics SL-1200 is just the ticket.