ZYX Universe, Dynavector XV-1s, vdH Colibri, ??


Last Sunday i finally took the time to compare three cartridges; my Dynavector XV-1s (.24mv output), a friends ZYX Universe (.24mv output) and my vdH Colibri (.85mv output) with the darTZeel preamp and phono stage in battery power.

Some background. in a post from my system thread i describe the path that brought me to be experimenting with various cartridges. that post also raves about listening to battery power with the darTZeel phono stage. i promised to compare the Dynavector and ZYX to the Colibri on battery power.

so that is what i did.

the darTZeel preamp has plenty of gain (62db in the phono stage and 20 db in the gain stage of the pre itself) so even with the relatively low output of the Dynavector and ZYX there are no gain issues at all, i only needed to go to about 2 o'clock on the volume attenuator for very high volume with the 95db efficient VR9 speakers. in battery mode the darTZeel phono stage is extremely quiet; so the normal advantage the Colibri has over other cartridges with lower gain is considerably reduced.

the darTZeel phono stage is set with 100ohm loading that seemed to work well with all the cartridges but is not ideal. i know that the Colibri likes about 400-500 ohms ideally; and from what i understand the Dynavector and ZYX both are ok (if not ideal) around 100 ohms.

the Dynavector is pretty new and only has maybe 30 hours on it; so it has not yet openned up completely. i am told the ZYX is fully broken in......and my Colibri is most definitly broken in.

i am very familiar with the setup parameters of the Colibri. i run it with the arm slightly down at the back, and track it at 1.45 grams as measured by my ALM-01 Winds Electronic Stylus Pressure Gauge. with the Rockport there is no anti-skate issues.

i ran the Dynavector XV-1s at 2.70 grams and slightly down in the rear of the arm.......and the ZYX Universe at 1.95 grams and the arm level.

i had played around previously with the Dynavector for my 30 hours and had had the Universe in the system for about a week prior to get it dialed in. so i had a reasonably good idea of setup on each cartridge.

the Rockport does make it easy to switch cartridges very quickly as all you need to do is change the counterweight to the proper one for the weight of that particular cartridge. then adjust the arm length for exact stylus position (there is a groove in the platter that you sight the stylus exactly inside for perfect position), rotate the arm for visual azimuth (i can get it very very close to perfect), and set your VTF. in practice about a 20 minute job if you already know the VTF you want.

so i was able to first listen to the Colibri, switch quickly to the Universe, listen again, then switch quickly to the XV-1s, and listen again.

before i get into what i heard on Sunday i want to describe my perceptions of how the Dynavector and ZYX compared when i the Universe first arrived from my friend. for reasons described in the previous post i had purchased the Dynavector as an alternative to my Colibri and it had been in my system for about 6 weeks. i had been using my Lamm LP2 Delux phono stage with the Placette passive RVC and Tenor 300 watt Hybrid monoblocks. i liked the Dynavector; compared to the Colibri it was less exciting, less on the edge, less vivid and immediate and less explosive......OTOH although it had a little color it was fairly neutral, always natural, very involving and had very good detail if not quite like the Colibri. more of my favorite music was enjoyable compared to the Colibri.

when i installed the ZYX Universe my first impression was of slightly less smoothness and naturalness compared to the Dynavector but more of the excitement of the Colibri. i played some of the Lps that had been on the edge with the Colibri and the ZYX was more natural and under control yet considerably more exciting than the Dynavector.

on the Lamm/Placette/Tenor my initial impressions were that these were simply two good cartridges that had different perspectives. as i listened more to the ZYX i could never really get fully involved into the music as i had felt with the Dynavector or especially the Colibri. why? i'm not exactly sure. it was like i wasn't hearing as far into the music as i liked. nothing was missing from the 'checklist' but i wasn't fulfilled.

the Lamm has 57.5 db of gain, has 400 ohm loading, and is extremely quiet. it has a very slight warmth, just to the dark side of neutral; but has a textural richness and refinement that i have not heard from any other phono stage (until dart battery power). it should be an ideal match for the ZYX.

so that was how it was before i tried battery power (as described in my previous post). i hope this makes sense up to this point.

now to the three cartridge comparison.

first the Colibri. the Colibri can be a 'train wreck'. it breaks all the rules. the barrel and canteliver are out of algnment with the cartridge 'body'......so setting asthimuth you ignore the body and just align the cateliver and stylus. i have owned 3 Colibris and they are all different yet all inconsistent. they can have any length canteliver a customer wants, gold windings, copper windings, wood bodies, polycarbonite bodies.......they have such little play in their suspensions that they can 'buzz' on certain edgy types of music. they are the Formula 1 cars of cartridges. the Colibri is so immediate, so explosive, yet so natural and so incisive that if all elsewhere is not about perfect.....you will know it and there will be a problem.

OTOH when all is right the Colibri is magnificent.

long story made short; with the battery powered dart phono stage in my system; the Dynavector and especially the ZYX are not nearly in the class of the Colibri. as the system improves, the lead of the Colibri gets larger.

i used tracks on 7 Lps for this comparison.

1.Muddy Waters 'Folk Singer', 'Good Morning School Girl', Classic reissue.

the Colibri here made the guitar plucks real and there. the whole musical sense was vivid and immediate. there was not a sense of the recording chain.....just some guys doing their thing. totally involving. each note dripped with reality. brilliant colors in the vocals and guitar overtones. ALIVE.

with the Universe it sounded great, nothing missing, satisfying. but; the guitar pluck was not as vivid, the colors were less vivid, there was overall a bit of haze that only compared to the Colibri was evidant. maybe no other cartridge would expose that issue. the decay of notes was reduced which reduced the overall involvement. sounded like a different pressing. NOT ALIVE.

on the Dynavector this was more different. less energy, less edge. transients were softened. smoother and warmer. very nice. a great sense of ease but too buttoned down for me. this track should boggie. excellent bloom and note decay.

2. The Royal Ballet, side one, Classic 33rpm reissue.

Colibri; spooky good. i don't want to stop. an 'oh my god' about every 30 seconds. i try to critically listen but it's hard.....i just want to close my eyes and forget about everything. about the best reproduced strings i have ever heard. such a sense of venue, the 'subway' and 'buses' outside seem real. where am i?

ZYX Universe; a different realm......reproduced music. very good.....but less of everything. very, very good. specifically, less separation of instruments, less delicacy
and less clarity. the effortlessness of the Colibri in sorting out the complex textures is missing.

Dynavector; not the detail or energy of the Colibri but very natural. slightly veiled but warm and inviting. not
wholey real but still much beauty. good flow and pulse of the music.

it's getting late; i will continue tomorrow morning or evening as time permits.

the Dynavector and ZYX are excellent cartridges that by themselves are rightly considered SOTA. just because i hear what i hear doesn't invalidate anyone else's perspectives.

so as not to attract too many flames i want to clearly state that i limit my comments to my specific system and setup choices. there are many varibles i have not or cannot address; arms, cartridge loading, breakin, taste, settleing in. i did not do the tiny tweaking of these cartridges that one does over time to dial them in just right. OTOH the differences that i heard are considerable and not subtle.

it just one guys opinion on one particular system on one particular day.

with that said; flame away.
mikelavigne
BTW-Raul,why are you trying to be so mean spirited?You made a nasty remark about "liquor",which is insulting,as I only mention wine as a humorous aspect of listening.You,also,have thanked me in the past,for being supportive of you.Now you seem to want to pick an argument,over my use of the word "extensive",and that I heard a "FABULOUS" set-up,that employed the UNIVERSE.BTW- the overall set-up was SO impressive that this was one reason I spent 11 hrs,this weekend,listening.I wanted to see if I could voice "certain aspects" of my own system to "some" of what I liked about "that" set-up.What is your problem?What have I quit on?Do you think I really care about this sillyness??Maybe you want me to join the "let's pick on Raul club"!!

You know I've always liked you,for your passion,and over the top,yet well meaning,critiques,but you are going too far with OVER-READING my post's intentions.

MY ONLY purpose of reporting the listening session(I was visiting relatives,near this nice "owner's house") I had, was for "mere" entertainment value.As, in a "FUN" read!!I'm sorry I mentioned any of it,since it seems to upset you.I don't take myself as seriously as you may think,and don't expect ANYONE to be so naieve to actually buy something,because I liked it.

Also,the UNIV was loaded correctly,and the supporting equipment was superbly well matched(well I wasn't wild about the Lectron amp heh,heh,but the new Bernings were fabulous.DOUG--stop worrying about the A.S. issue.You're off the hook).This all played a part,yet the UNIV was obviously a superb performer.Also,I realised this in about 10 minutes,so you can complain about that time frame,as well,but I heard what I heard!!Also,I'm completely aware of the fine qualities all the leading cartridges possess,but don't care,as I never approached any of this as a cartridge shootout.Perhaps you can offer an extensive comparison,of your "cartridge stable".I'm sure we all would love to read about it.As for me,I'm done.REALLY!

Best to all!
Dear Sirspeedy: No, I'm not saying that you and your friends were " drunk ", sorry for the wrong sense of my english.

+++++ " Now, why I take so serious this Mike's thread, well here we are talking of
almost " the best of the best " about cartridges ( well we need here at
least the Allaerts ) that have a jewelery price and we have a responsibility
with all the people on this forum that are looking for trusty information
not only a very " first impression ", "+++++

I think that you miss my point.

+++++ " MY ONLY purpose of reporting the listening session(I was visiting relatives,near this nice "owner's house") I had, was for "mere" entertainment value.As, in a "FUN" read!!I'm sorry I mentioned any of it,since it seems to upset you.I don't take myself as seriously as you may think, " +++++

This is the difference and no I don't have any club, my " club " is to try to help other audio people with a honest and experienced opinions ( I'm not saying that yours are not ). I have a compromise with the music, that's all.

New Bernings?, this explain about. Happy " equalization " !!!!

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
Dear sirspeedy,
This letter was written before I took off to the European Triode Festival from which I just returned. I had been contemplating the value of a reply, now your continueing references to me made me decide to react. Here ist my original reply from last Thursday:

Larry Howkins called me today and, among other things, mentioned that you had finally had a chance to visit him(isn't he the kindest guy!) and to give his system a listen, too. He also mentioned that you had posted some comments on audiogon, so, being interested to read about your impressions, I checked the thread.
I did find many very positive and personal remarks based on keen and (as much as that is possible)unbiased observation, nicely put and in good spirit. What I did (and do) have a problem with are your references to a "competing manufacturer", a "sort of celebrity" , which set up the Graham 2.2 arm the wrong way. As there was no other manufacturer of arms present during the often quoted weekend of comparing arms and cartridges, I must assume you're talking about me. If this is not the case, please skip the following sentences, or ignore them.
If it was me indeed you were refering to, then let me clarify a few points:
I did not set the antiskating to a value that would be appropriate for 3,5grams tracking force. In fact, the entire listening comparison was done with the arm set up as both Larry and Doug Deacon did it prior to my (very much delayed) arrival.
I do use the Ortofon 0002/3 testrecords when setting up arms with carts that come from someone else. That goes for antiskating as well, minuscule variatons are then checked by ear(at home, I also use a Namiki side force checker... to rare to loose it -or have it stolen- at trips or shows abroad).
When the last listening session was over and Larry needed the 2.2 to go back on the Teres360 he asked me to check the overhang and VTF setting, which I did. Intermittently I had also checked the tracking force on the Universe(1,93gr. at the time) , mainly to check the accuracy of my mechanical scale versus Doug's digital scale(both showed the same VTF).
Larry had told me that, upon checking the VTF quite some time later he found it too high(2,3gr.)on his Universe. Before I left, I had set it to 2,1 gr. , this value corresponding with a 300Hz tracking ability of 70microns for the Universe.
The antiskating was set correspondingly.
The fact that Larry ended up with an arm with the wrong VTF AND an incorrect antiskating setting cannot be attributed to anything I did. I'm not saying it was the cleaning lady, I simply don't know.
What I do know is that I would NEVER misalign or wrongly set up a competing product to gain an advantage. Any such implication is highly insulting. How stupid and easy to spot would such an attempt be with half a dozen people looking over my shoulder and Doug doing his own set up on the Triplanar ?
I am glad that you did check the set up and found out that the antiskating setting had gone out of whack.
Feel free to comment on the above, if you don't, I won't hold a grudge, but my desire to participate here on the audiogon forum by supplying information or just my perspective will go down even more than what it already has.

A merry set of holidays for you and your loved ones,

Frank Schröder
Frank,I am simply amazed that you feel the need to comment on such an inocuous post,by me.I made it my business to NOT mention any names,and now both you and Doug have let the cat out of the bag.Though this is probably no problem.

Also,a good bit of my post was simply to light a fire under Larry,to be more open to playing with the arm voicing,since the anti skate was off,and even though Larry and Pat(a great set of ears,btw)preferred the orig set-up,I was SURE it could be bettered.There is NO way "THAT" antiskate setting is "RIGHT"!

Now we both know how critical(in a good way)Larry is,but with the NEW BABY coming in march,and with him claiming he was never happy with the ultimate performance from the 2.2,as well as Doug claiming he has heard problems with the 2.2,and he gave the impression of being firm on "that's how it must sound",I simply(with tongue in cheek,and you should have realised this)wanted to stir the pot.

I NEVER thought of the concept,of you setting up anything intentionally wrong,even though just eyeballing the 2.2 for two seconds told me it was wrong.I simply figured you set it up,this way,as I was told you "have the best ears in the hobby",and you set it by ear(as Larry told me).

Please don't be so damn paranoid.You know I like you and your products,but you don't REALLY know the real me,and I would NEVER have considered any voicing was done on purpose.As always,I was fishing,a bit,but as I have NUMEROUS friends who claim they ALSO know "the best ears on the planet",I was sort of poking fun at the set-up person for the 2.2(which as I understood it,was you,and you SHOULD have checked the darn anti skate,AUTOMATICALLY,anyway!!!).

None of this is a problem,though as I have accomplished my objective,of shedding some light,so when the new baby comes we can have a fair comparison.

Best regards,and I hope I don't get pidgeonholed as some kind of 2.2 defender(I am enthused with a ton of stuff,really).
Hello sirspeedy,
Thanks for your reply. Innocuous is not the word I'd use to describe some of your posts, more exactly, your choice of wording and your use of parenthesis(the use of which -when not indicating a quote- is considered pejorative, sometimes even demeaning in German, not tongue in cheek).
I'm certain Larry has and will continue to invest time and effort into getting the best out of all of the components that make up his system, including the excellent Graham 2.2. You're stirring the pot after the main course has been served and some time will go by before the dessert is on the table.
I'm not (damn) paranoid, I'd just like to see everyone posting here, incl. myself, showing more respect towards the other participants(this subject has been covered at length, I believe...)
I don't consider you a 2.2 defender, just an enthusiastic owner, who was and is eager to share his findings so that others can get the best out of their arm(and that's what this forum should be about, right?).

Cheerio,

Frank