Teres, Galibier and Redpoint

Dan,

The 320 and 380 are about the same size? Egad! You'll have to help us out my friend. I just mailed Nick some RatShack resistors for your new preamp and suggested he wire it with lamp cord, instead of that exotic stuff he normally uses. He thanked me for a great cost-control idea and - here's the good news - he's splitting the savings with me. Woo-hoo! We're on our way to a 380! ;-)

Interesting differences you heard between Thom's UNIverse and Chris's. If Thom's was set up on a DPS while Chris's was on a Ref, that alone would cause dynamic differences. The Ref has more powerful magnets. In our direct comparisons at Cello's it had more stability on big dynamic hits and a lower noise floor on trailing edge decays. The DD table probably contributed also, as you said.

It's my humble opinion that of the 4 permutations we wanted to listen to on Saturday, the one we didn't get to (Triplanar/ Universe) is the best combination for the Universe. Please see my comments below about mass matching caveats, and the fact that my Ebony Schröder Reference has an 18 gram effective mass.

Everything I've heard tells me that the attributes of the Triplanar and Universe is a match made in heaven. Given that no component is perfect, I'd say that both Triplanar and Dynavector are slightly stronger in "incisiveness factor", while Schröder and ZYX are slightly more about tone color.

Now, the ZYX is fast, and the Dynavectors have tone, so don't take the above comment to the extreme. Realize that this is a broad, sweeping generalization as all 4 products perform to a very high level.

Only when you listen side by side will you hear a difference and will you come to a preference.

I don't know what went on at Chris' house, but I suspect that his Edgarhorns played a significant role in the different results.

I speak from experience of both of the Edgarhorns as well as of my soon to depart Exemplar horns. Before switching to my new Azzolina Audio horns, I would have considered the Edgars/Exemplars to have a correct presentation. Every other cone driver based, front-loaded horn has had tubby colorations. Not so with the Azzolinas, but I digress. Again, we're talking about 3 speaker systems that perform to the level of the arms and cartridges in question, but having said that, this is all about small but significant differences.

Rather than take a side trip into this topic, I think that this worth a rant on my Rants Page - the perilous journey into low power triodes and horns. To quote someone I once used to correspond with: "it's a long and dangerous journey ... bring plenty of milk and cookies".

So ... once again, the poor audiophile is in system matching hell - given the inherent flaws in any transducer (be it a cartridge or a speaker). If it were only more simple, we could make global proclamations. Forums like this give us the opportunity to triangulate on combinations that make magic.

Now that I have what I consider to be speakers that lend a slightly more even hand to the music, I am beginning to ponder whether an 18 gram Ebony Schröder Reference is a bit too heavy for the Universe. My ZYX has the silver base plate, BTW.

After CES, and at Frank's suggestion, I tried to see if 18 grams was the upper limit for the Universe. I increased it by employing the optional brass cartridge carrier to add 5 more grams (total mass of 23 grams). This slowed things down.

Perhaps 12-15 is truly the magic spot for the Universe? Unfortunately, I don't have a Jacaranda or Bocote version to play with, but Dmailer's Jacaranda arm / Universe combination would point toward this (15 grams) being the true upper limit for optimum performance.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

Thom, I may be completely butchering which model Schroder you were using. I thought that only the DPS had the VTF wheel on the back of the weight but I admit that I'm not really familiar with the differences in Frank's arms.

Doug, leave Nick alone, dammit! :)

It's my humble opinion that of the 4 permutations we wanted to listen to on Saturday, the one we didn't get to (Triplanar/ Universe) is the best combination for the Universe. Please see my comments below about mass matching caveats, and the fact that my Ebony Schröder Reference has an 18 gram effective mass.

Everything I've heard tells me that the attributes of the Triplanar and Universe is a match made in heaven. Given that no component is perfect, I'd say that both Triplanar and Dynavector are slightly stronger in "incisiveness factor", while Schröder and ZYX are slightly more about tone color.

Now, the ZYX is fast, and the Dynavectors have tone, so don't take the above comment to the extreme. Realize that this is a broad, sweeping generalization as all 4 products perform to a very high level.

Only when you listen side by side will you hear a difference and will you come to a preference.

I don't know what went on at Chris' house, but I suspect that his Edgarhorns played a significant role in the different results.

I speak from experience of both of the Edgarhorns as well as of my soon to depart Exemplar horns. Before switching to my new Azzolina Audio horns, I would have considered the Edgars/Exemplars to have a correct presentation. Every other cone driver based, front-loaded horn has had tubby colorations. Not so with the Azzolinas, but I digress. Again, we're talking about 3 speaker systems that perform to the level of the arms and cartridges in question, but having said that, this is all about small but significant differences.

Rather than take a side trip into this topic, I think that this worth a rant on my Rants Page - the perilous journey into low power triodes and horns. To quote someone I once used to correspond with: "it's a long and dangerous journey ... bring plenty of milk and cookies".

So ... once again, the poor audiophile is in system matching hell - given the inherent flaws in any transducer (be it a cartridge or a speaker). If it were only more simple, we could make global proclamations. Forums like this give us the opportunity to triangulate on combinations that make magic.

Now that I have what I consider to be speakers that lend a slightly more even hand to the music, I am beginning to ponder whether an 18 gram Ebony Schröder Reference is a bit too heavy for the Universe. My ZYX has the silver base plate, BTW.

After CES, and at Frank's suggestion, I tried to see if 18 grams was the upper limit for the Universe. I increased it by employing the optional brass cartridge carrier to add 5 more grams (total mass of 23 grams). This slowed things down.

Perhaps 12-15 is truly the magic spot for the Universe? Unfortunately, I don't have a Jacaranda or Bocote version to play with, but Dmailer's Jacaranda arm / Universe combination would point toward this (15 grams) being the true upper limit for optimum performance.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

Hi Dan,

The photos on the bearing page are a bit confusing. Frank makes fine VTF adjustment available (via the thumbwheel on the counterweight) for both the DPS and the Reference.

It's a no-close option. The only reason it isn't standard is because some folks get the hee-be-jee-bees over the concept of the thumbwheel - either from an aesthetic perspective or a sonic one.

I recently learned that the Model-2 has a threaded end stub for this same purpose. I sometimes learn about these arms from other Schröder customers. It's only fair that I share the info ;-)

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier