Teres, Galibier and Redpoint

Thom, I may be completely butchering which model Schroder you were using. I thought that only the DPS had the VTF wheel on the back of the weight but I admit that I'm not really familiar with the differences in Frank's arms.

Doug, leave Nick alone, dammit! :)

It's my humble opinion that of the 4 permutations we wanted to listen to on Saturday, the one we didn't get to (Triplanar/ Universe) is the best combination for the Universe. Please see my comments below about mass matching caveats, and the fact that my Ebony Schröder Reference has an 18 gram effective mass.

Everything I've heard tells me that the attributes of the Triplanar and Universe is a match made in heaven. Given that no component is perfect, I'd say that both Triplanar and Dynavector are slightly stronger in "incisiveness factor", while Schröder and ZYX are slightly more about tone color.

Now, the ZYX is fast, and the Dynavectors have tone, so don't take the above comment to the extreme. Realize that this is a broad, sweeping generalization as all 4 products perform to a very high level.

Only when you listen side by side will you hear a difference and will you come to a preference.

I don't know what went on at Chris' house, but I suspect that his Edgarhorns played a significant role in the different results.

I speak from experience of both of the Edgarhorns as well as of my soon to depart Exemplar horns. Before switching to my new Azzolina Audio horns, I would have considered the Edgars/Exemplars to have a correct presentation. Every other cone driver based, front-loaded horn has had tubby colorations. Not so with the Azzolinas, but I digress. Again, we're talking about 3 speaker systems that perform to the level of the arms and cartridges in question, but having said that, this is all about small but significant differences.

Rather than take a side trip into this topic, I think that this worth a rant on my Rants Page - the perilous journey into low power triodes and horns. To quote someone I once used to correspond with: "it's a long and dangerous journey ... bring plenty of milk and cookies".

So ... once again, the poor audiophile is in system matching hell - given the inherent flaws in any transducer (be it a cartridge or a speaker). If it were only more simple, we could make global proclamations. Forums like this give us the opportunity to triangulate on combinations that make magic.

Now that I have what I consider to be speakers that lend a slightly more even hand to the music, I am beginning to ponder whether an 18 gram Ebony Schröder Reference is a bit too heavy for the Universe. My ZYX has the silver base plate, BTW.

After CES, and at Frank's suggestion, I tried to see if 18 grams was the upper limit for the Universe. I increased it by employing the optional brass cartridge carrier to add 5 more grams (total mass of 23 grams). This slowed things down.

Perhaps 12-15 is truly the magic spot for the Universe? Unfortunately, I don't have a Jacaranda or Bocote version to play with, but Dmailer's Jacaranda arm / Universe combination would point toward this (15 grams) being the true upper limit for optimum performance.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

Hi Dan,

The photos on the bearing page are a bit confusing. Frank makes fine VTF adjustment available (via the thumbwheel on the counterweight) for both the DPS and the Reference.

It's a no-close option. The only reason it isn't standard is because some folks get the hee-be-jee-bees over the concept of the thumbwheel - either from an aesthetic perspective or a sonic one.

I recently learned that the Model-2 has a threaded end stub for this same purpose. I sometimes learn about these arms from other Schröder customers. It's only fair that I share the info ;-)

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

Thom,

You let poor audiophile Dan get away without hearing the best available arm/cartridge combo? We need to talk... ;-)

I haven't heard the Dyna, but I totally concur with Thom's differentiation of the Schroeder Ref and TriPlanar VII. With the same cartridge on each arm, the Schroeder is slightly better at tone and timbre, the TriPlanar is slightly better at leading edge transients and pace.

Even side-by-side these differences are subtle. No one could be unhappy with either arm. Thom's standing advice is very good IMO: chose the arm that suits your budget and style, and that seems most comfortable to set up and live with.

I once urged Tri Mai to drill and tap the TriPlanar's end stub for a fine VTF adjustment screw, as Frank now does on his Model 2. I was disappointed that his recent upgrades to the TP VII didn't include this. O-rings work fine, but they are a bit hokey and they add 59 cents to the cost!

Now back to your regularly scheduled turntable thread...

Well, it sounds to me like Thom did get pretty close based on your last comments, Doug. And Thom also makes a valid point about the differences in systems and speakers. So I see no reason why someone could not be happy with either tonearm and either cartridge.

BTW, someone did post some pictures of the two new Teres tables over on AA. I guess the DD is a model 400.