Shelter and Triplanar matching ?

Dear André and Doug: Today, I think that we are talking on the same subject where we agree at all.

Doug the small differences between your opinion and mine is ( I think ) my first hand experiences on HO cartridges: I owned at least 12 differents ones, I own around 14 ones and I heard it ( out of my system ) several ones. Sometime, you have to try it.

André, is up to you. Good luck on your cartridge hunt.

Regards and enjoy the music.
raul.

Dear André: Here are some recomendations for a HO cartridge:

Reson Aciore, Grado Reference, Music Maker III, Clearaudio Virtuoso, Sumiko Blackbird, Goldring 1042. Now, if you can find, second hand, an Audio Technica AT 170 or ( better yet ) 180 OCC ATML you will be on " music heaven ". This AT MM cartridge compete with the very top low output cartridges and outperforms many of them.

This is an extract of a review on the Grado one: " "Without question these are the best phono cartridges out there,REAL BASS,smooth non tipped up highs(like moving coils) the music has meat to it,sounds very real,as if you could step into the music.And despite what others have said it is fast and articulate,plus you don't need a step-up device,(less between you and the music)."

The MM cartridges are like the " lost link " in analog. No body cares about and I think that no body cares about because the no know-how on the MM subject and a comercial bias through the LO MC cartridges.
Almost all professional audio reviewers and cartridge manufacturers are on the " comercial business ", where they obtain more money: LO MC cartridges.
The bias for the LO MC cartridges has nothing to do with a " better quality sound reproduction ", it has to do only with " money " and the no know-how of us the customers. The MM alternative is not only a very good one but in many audio subjects superior to the LO MC one.

Any one that want to tell me that the LO MC cartridges are better than the HO/MM ones has to prove it ( I think it could not ) and I can tell you that I can prove that the HO/MM technology is up to the task and a lot, lot, lot less expensive. This price characteristics is one of the issues why the people don't buy MM cartridges: " is to cheap to be good ". NO KNOW-HOW.

I almost never speaks in this forum about MM cartridges because almost all the people in this forum is out of that game, but this fact does not means that the MM subject is a " low-Fi " option. No, certainly it is not.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Very interesting thread,and responses,btw.Two years ago,while swimming off the Long Island Sound(near Sea Cliff),and in my "water proof tuxedo"(God I love you Raul)I was aware that if I wanted to enhance my phono performance it was going to cost me dearly.My alternatives were to sell my current unit,or have a complete rebuild(from Great Northern Sound).The thought of the "buying and selling" syndrome didn't appeal as much as the assurance of this very expensive rebuild.Glad I did do it,and my low output cartridge loves it.Plenty of gain.I've never been happy with SUT's,and I've had a few.Keep it simple,seems the way to go!!
Doug,could you enlighten me,as to the differences between the ZYX Univ "silver vs copper",as this is of interest to me?Thanks,in advance.

Well I've got to hang up my Tux now.

Best to all!

Hi everybody

Really great to discuss with you all...at least things are clearer now .
Doug and Raul
Thank you for your support...

Sirspeedy
Thanks for humour... always welcome.

Bye

André

Dear friends: Here are some facts about why exist the SUTs for LO cartridges ( at least is my point of view ):

- In the fifthies appear the MC LO cartridges ( As a fact: Ortofon invented in 1948. ). In that time all the phonopreamps were designed for HO cartridges MM/MI/etc. No one was in the design of high gain PP because no body need it.

- Ortofon and latter other MC LO cartridges never ask to the PP designers/builders to manufacture a high gain PP for their MC LO cartridges. What I mean is that never exist a cooperation job between the MC LO builders and the PP manufacturers.

- What was the comercial attitude of almost all MC LO cartridges builders?: to put on sale their MC LO cartridges along with a SUTs ( designed for it self ) for those MC LO cartridges.

- I can remember from Ortofon when they design the MC10, MC 20, Mc 30, Mc 2000, Mc 3000 and MC 5000, cartridges at the same time they offer the respective SUT: T 10, T 20, T 30, T 5000.

- Like Ortofon everybody do the same: Denon, Audiocraft, Fidelity Research, Koetsu, Micro Seiki, Accuphase, Dynavector, Highphonic, Audio Technica, Entre, etc, etc.

- In the mid-time what does the PP designers ( SS or tube ) for the development of a high gain PP?: almost nothing, almost all take the easy " cheap road " ( wrong/worst one ): that the customers buy SUTs along with their PP if they want to handle a LO cartridge. Some of the PP designers/builders incorporate in their " high gain " PP internal SUTs, exactly like today ones.

- No body take the challenge to design a HG PP with out SUTs. There are some exceptions: Curl, Levinson, Pass, Klyne, Classé, D'angostino, etc, etc,

- So we all are suffering the " easy road/ wrong road " that almost all designers/builders take it more than 55 years ago.

- All those comercial attitude never take into account us: the audio customers and never take into account the QUALITY MUSIC/SOUND REPRODUCTION. They don't care about in those times and many of them don't care about today.

Fortunatelly, in the last few years, some PP builders finally take the challenge ( others like me designed our self ones ) and we have some very good HG PP, many of them at very high price.

This change of comercial attitude: Bravo!!!!!!, could tell us that the best about is coming because the developtment of HG PPs are really " starting ", it is not a mature industry.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.