Basis Vector 3 vs. Schröder, Triplanar, Graham

Hi Dan. Thx for your msg. Sure I am a Basis owner. But that is besides the point; please examine my thread closer. What’s not objective? Please note that I did not list any quasi-rankings but pointed out that Mr. Teres is a direct competitor to Basis and with his presence and relationship with Cello and the proceedings where the rankings were derived from had significant influence on any rankings derived from those proceedings. That’s just human nature. Teres as I’ve recently discovered makes/sells turntables. He also sells Schroder tonearms; surprise the very ones at the top of their quasi-rankings. Basis makes turntables and tonearms. There is an inbuilt bias and lack of ethics in Teres critiquing anything made by a direct competitor. That Teres’ website mentions the Vector is irrelevant. I’ll ask another question. How many threads have you seen on this forum where a manufacturer critiqued products made by a direct competitor? Think about it, doing so is almost if not never done. Most other vendors would not broach ethical boundaries in that manner.

Per your comments about the Vector I vs. the Vector III. I own the Vector I so cannot provide all of the details. I do know that one of the differences between the two models is the signal wires in the Model III are Basis Audio’s remarkable new PSTT interconnect wire. I’ve inserted the Basis cables (interconnect & speaker) and their power cords in various places in my system. The sonic benefits gained from use of these cables is significant on multiple levels. Shocking to me as I am not much of a cable person. Based on this, if the difference between the Vector I and Vector III is but a change in cables, that alone will result in a huge sonic improvement. Please email me Dan if you desire more details on my experience with the cable products.

Dan, I am puzzled by your “I have not mastered the techniques used to get the most from the Graham” comment. From reading about that arm, I thought its benefit was an ease of set up.

Hi Tubes. I'm sorry that I don't know your name. I'm really tired of this internet anonymity thang! :)

I do understand your point about manufacturers and their internet posts. But your response is certainly not objective. And neither is mine. All opinions, especially concerning analog playback, are totally subjective. These opinions are subjective to what equipment one has heard. They are subjective to how well one "knows" the equipment one has heard. And, as you point out, opinions are subjective to biases based on which equipment one has voted for with their dollars. This is the point I was attempting to make.

Yes, Teres is a competitor (technically speaking) of Basis. I say technically speaking because Teres (and others like Galibier) don't have near the marketing power since these guys don't use dealers. Are they injecting a biased opinion? I'd bet on it. But at the same time I don't see too many Schroeders and TriPlanars mounted on Basis tables. I'm sure A.J. could provide such a mount and perhaps he does. But I don't see dealers that market Basis also market these other products. Maybe there is a reason why this is so but I've not heard it. I'm only offering this in my feable way of stating that ALL opinions are subject. You could easily argue that the list of performers was compiled based soley on retail prices.

Again, I cannot offer an opinion concerning TriPlanar/Phantom/Schroeder vs Vecter because I have not personally done this comparison. I only state that what I have experienced is that the Vector 1 and the 2.2 are very close in performance.

Now I want to give a bit more as to my experiences with the Vector. I'm a big fan of this arm. It has many, many good features. What I do offer from my experience is that the Vector's performance with a particular cartridge is dependant on how much dampening silicon oil is used. I found that it is possible to influence the performance of the Vector/cartridge combo by experimenting with the amount of the oil in the bath. Dry is not an option with the Vector, but I reject the directions that just state something like fill the bath but don't cover the bearing. As has been reported, Graham is just as guilty of this in their instructions. It really is up to the owner to experiment and adjust as necessary to get the most from either of these arms. At the same time, I can remember when A.J. did not believe (or at least he did not recommend) changing VTA. I remember talking with him. "Don't do that." Now he is offering a VTA adjuster for the Vector. A very precise, highy machined (and VERY expensive) mechanism for doing just what he seemed to indicate that he really does, or did, not like to do with his tonearm. Again, a subjective opinion and I suspect this was based on market demands.

Don't simply accept that the Vector is a set and forget arm. It can be used that way, as can the 2.2, but it is possible to tune the Vector to some degree with a given cartridge.

Dear friends: Lapaix is asking about the VECTOR 3 and several of your post are of different Vector model,including the Cello/Doug/Teres audio party.

It could be more on a help to Lapaix speak about the VECTOR 3, don't you think?.

I agree again with Tubes108.

Ranking a tonearm? ( come on Cello and Doug!!!! ). this is a very complex issue, there are many variables to rank: design ( who can tell which one is better and why ), materials used, execution design, quality, presentation: how it looks, performance: with which cartridges in what music areas: bass ( low bass ), midrange, midbass, focus, speed, transients, highs, with which material arm board ( metal, acrylic, wood, ), etc, etc, etc, etc.

Please don't tell me that in those audio parties every one of you can give us a serious and knowledge ranking of any those tonearms.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Lapaix asked for comparisons of the Vector to, "the various Schröders, the Triplanar VII, Graham Phantom, and so forth."

He got informed responses based on real-world experiences from Cello, Teres, Thomasheisig, Lgraef, Dan_ed and myself.

Mr. Graham was kind enough to provide a factual update on his product line.

The other posts on this thread are mostly noise provoked by Tubes108's trolling. IMO Dan_Ed is being very kind.

Tubes108's criticism of Teres was fatuous, and pretending to be "surprised" that someone who calls himself "Teres" is actually THE Teres was too childish to be believed.

Teres does not compete with Basis when it comes to tonearms. The first paragraph on the Tonearms page of his website states, "Schroder, Morch, Graham, Origin Live, Basis and Triplanar tonearms are available from Teres Audio. Please contact us for package pricing." What could be plainer? If he prefers other arms so what? His preferences are his preferences, and clearly stated as such.

Tubes108's attempted smear of Cello's integrity was as insulting as it was baseless. Cello owns both arms. He is in the best possible position to compare them. Kudos to SirSpeedy for a welcome post. What better cause to return after a long absence than to defend the honor of an honest man?

Has Tubes108 even compared his Vector to another arm? That would be useful information. His attitude smacks of mere owner-loyalty. He should examine his motives.

Raul does not own a Vector or a Graham. Nor has he ever compared them side by side in a meaningful venue AFAIK. I value his vast real world audio experience, but his posts on this thread are meaningless. Joining Tubes108's pointless ad hominem attack does him no credit.

Dear Doug: +++++ " , but his posts on this thread are meaningless. " +++++

I remember you that I don't posted here any tonearm comparations/ranking and that is because I never had the opportunity to evaluate the Vector 3 and the Phantom and I think neither you or Cello. So regarding this your posts are " meaningless " too. But this is not the issue.

+++++ " Joining Tubes108's pointless ad hominem attack does him no credit. " +++++

Please, I don't attack him or to any one, this is only my opinion. I wonder why when some body don't agree with me and posted about you never try to defend me like you do for Cello/Teres in a strong way.

+++++ " than to defend the honor of an honest man? " +++++

Doug, I really think that no body want or try, in any moment, to destroy the " honor " of any person. Please don't be so " dramatic " here, this forum is a serious one but certainly it is not " heaven ".

I respect you and Cello too but everybody here has the right to post his opinion and everybody here has the right to does not agree with it. This discord I can asure you that does not have nothing to do with the " honor " of any person or to try to insult to any person.

You posted: " +++++ Tubes108's criticism of Teres was fatuous, and pretending to be "surprised" that someone who calls himself "Teres" is actually THE Teres was too childish to be believed. " +++++

From your point of view I could think that you are insulting to Tubes108, however I know that you are not that kind of person.

Now, I really apreciate your answers on this thread but many of what we posted here were because Cello ( till today ) does not give any answer to what other people ask him about, why don't let Cello and Teres the opportunity to answer? are you their spokesman?

Btw, Lapaix ask for info specific about the Vector 3/ Phantom/etc, not about 2.2/Vector. This is a difference and you or Cello post many things but don't give the answers on the specific tonearm model he ask. So, your/Cello posts are " meaningless " ?, certainly not, like any other one here.

Please somebody ( other than Lgraef ) answer about Vector 3 / Phantom .

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.