Basis Vector 3 vs. Schröder, Triplanar, Graham

Hi Tubes. I'm sorry that I don't know your name. I'm really tired of this internet anonymity thang! :)

I do understand your point about manufacturers and their internet posts. But your response is certainly not objective. And neither is mine. All opinions, especially concerning analog playback, are totally subjective. These opinions are subjective to what equipment one has heard. They are subjective to how well one "knows" the equipment one has heard. And, as you point out, opinions are subjective to biases based on which equipment one has voted for with their dollars. This is the point I was attempting to make.

Yes, Teres is a competitor (technically speaking) of Basis. I say technically speaking because Teres (and others like Galibier) don't have near the marketing power since these guys don't use dealers. Are they injecting a biased opinion? I'd bet on it. But at the same time I don't see too many Schroeders and TriPlanars mounted on Basis tables. I'm sure A.J. could provide such a mount and perhaps he does. But I don't see dealers that market Basis also market these other products. Maybe there is a reason why this is so but I've not heard it. I'm only offering this in my feable way of stating that ALL opinions are subject. You could easily argue that the list of performers was compiled based soley on retail prices.

Again, I cannot offer an opinion concerning TriPlanar/Phantom/Schroeder vs Vecter because I have not personally done this comparison. I only state that what I have experienced is that the Vector 1 and the 2.2 are very close in performance.

Now I want to give a bit more as to my experiences with the Vector. I'm a big fan of this arm. It has many, many good features. What I do offer from my experience is that the Vector's performance with a particular cartridge is dependant on how much dampening silicon oil is used. I found that it is possible to influence the performance of the Vector/cartridge combo by experimenting with the amount of the oil in the bath. Dry is not an option with the Vector, but I reject the directions that just state something like fill the bath but don't cover the bearing. As has been reported, Graham is just as guilty of this in their instructions. It really is up to the owner to experiment and adjust as necessary to get the most from either of these arms. At the same time, I can remember when A.J. did not believe (or at least he did not recommend) changing VTA. I remember talking with him. "Don't do that." Now he is offering a VTA adjuster for the Vector. A very precise, highy machined (and VERY expensive) mechanism for doing just what he seemed to indicate that he really does, or did, not like to do with his tonearm. Again, a subjective opinion and I suspect this was based on market demands.

Don't simply accept that the Vector is a set and forget arm. It can be used that way, as can the 2.2, but it is possible to tune the Vector to some degree with a given cartridge.

Dear friends: Lapaix is asking about the VECTOR 3 and several of your post are of different Vector model,including the Cello/Doug/Teres audio party.

It could be more on a help to Lapaix speak about the VECTOR 3, don't you think?.

I agree again with Tubes108.

Ranking a tonearm? ( come on Cello and Doug!!!! ). this is a very complex issue, there are many variables to rank: design ( who can tell which one is better and why ), materials used, execution design, quality, presentation: how it looks, performance: with which cartridges in what music areas: bass ( low bass ), midrange, midbass, focus, speed, transients, highs, with which material arm board ( metal, acrylic, wood, ), etc, etc, etc, etc.

Please don't tell me that in those audio parties every one of you can give us a serious and knowledge ranking of any those tonearms.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Lapaix asked for comparisons of the Vector to, "the various Schröders, the Triplanar VII, Graham Phantom, and so forth."

He got informed responses based on real-world experiences from Cello, Teres, Thomasheisig, Lgraef, Dan_ed and myself.

Mr. Graham was kind enough to provide a factual update on his product line.

The other posts on this thread are mostly noise provoked by Tubes108's trolling. IMO Dan_Ed is being very kind.

Tubes108's criticism of Teres was fatuous, and pretending to be "surprised" that someone who calls himself "Teres" is actually THE Teres was too childish to be believed.

Teres does not compete with Basis when it comes to tonearms. The first paragraph on the Tonearms page of his website states, "Schroder, Morch, Graham, Origin Live, Basis and Triplanar tonearms are available from Teres Audio. Please contact us for package pricing." What could be plainer? If he prefers other arms so what? His preferences are his preferences, and clearly stated as such.

Tubes108's attempted smear of Cello's integrity was as insulting as it was baseless. Cello owns both arms. He is in the best possible position to compare them. Kudos to SirSpeedy for a welcome post. What better cause to return after a long absence than to defend the honor of an honest man?

Has Tubes108 even compared his Vector to another arm? That would be useful information. His attitude smacks of mere owner-loyalty. He should examine his motives.

Raul does not own a Vector or a Graham. Nor has he ever compared them side by side in a meaningful venue AFAIK. I value his vast real world audio experience, but his posts on this thread are meaningless. Joining Tubes108's pointless ad hominem attack does him no credit.

Dear Doug: +++++ " , but his posts on this thread are meaningless. " +++++

I remember you that I don't posted here any tonearm comparations/ranking and that is because I never had the opportunity to evaluate the Vector 3 and the Phantom and I think neither you or Cello. So regarding this your posts are " meaningless " too. But this is not the issue.

+++++ " Joining Tubes108's pointless ad hominem attack does him no credit. " +++++

Please, I don't attack him or to any one, this is only my opinion. I wonder why when some body don't agree with me and posted about you never try to defend me like you do for Cello/Teres in a strong way.

+++++ " than to defend the honor of an honest man? " +++++

Doug, I really think that no body want or try, in any moment, to destroy the " honor " of any person. Please don't be so " dramatic " here, this forum is a serious one but certainly it is not " heaven ".

I respect you and Cello too but everybody here has the right to post his opinion and everybody here has the right to does not agree with it. This discord I can asure you that does not have nothing to do with the " honor " of any person or to try to insult to any person.

You posted: " +++++ Tubes108's criticism of Teres was fatuous, and pretending to be "surprised" that someone who calls himself "Teres" is actually THE Teres was too childish to be believed. " +++++

From your point of view I could think that you are insulting to Tubes108, however I know that you are not that kind of person.

Now, I really apreciate your answers on this thread but many of what we posted here were because Cello ( till today ) does not give any answer to what other people ask him about, why don't let Cello and Teres the opportunity to answer? are you their spokesman?

Btw, Lapaix ask for info specific about the Vector 3/ Phantom/etc, not about 2.2/Vector. This is a difference and you or Cello post many things but don't give the answers on the specific tonearm model he ask. So, your/Cello posts are " meaningless " ?, certainly not, like any other one here.

Please somebody ( other than Lgraef ) answer about Vector 3 / Phantom .

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

I agree that no one has been able to address directly the question that Lapaix asked. It does not seem that very many if any people have compared the mentioned arms with a Vector 3. Because I have not heard a Vector 3 I had intended to not post to this thread. Tubes108 did throw out some accusations that compelled me to respond concerning my somewhat limited experience with a few of these arms. Attacking a manufacturer could be seen as somehow acceptible and I'm sure most would agree that having that crap slung at you is part of the price of doing business. It should be done on the basis of some question of design or manufacturing parameter.

I have not had the pleasure of meeting Bob Graham but he did step in on my behalf and straighten out a problem I was having with one of his dealers. He was very responsive, most helpful and even went out of his way to ensure that I was completely satisfied with a cable purchase.

I have met A.J. a few times and had the pleasure to talk with him about his products. He was very helpful and it was obvious that he is most excited about analog equipment design and had several good tips on what I could do to get the most from his products.

I have not had the pleasure of meeting Chris Brady. I have read many posts from his customers which give testament to how far Chris is willing to go to make sure that they get the best possible service and enjoyment from his products.

My point is that all three of these people care very deeply about what they are giving to the audio community. All have shown great willingness to help and better the state of the analog playback art. I don't know about Graham, but I do have good reason to suspect that A.J and Chris have other business concerns and do not derive their primary income from audio equipment. So I find it very amusing that some would try to turn this into some kind of sandlot pissing contest about who has more integrity.

As DougDeacon has pointed out, Chris Brady does sell all of the arms mentioned. I'm not aware of any other dealer that offers all of them. Chris does offer his opinion based on his preferences. That's perfectly ok. It doesn't mean that anyone has to accept what he says. I still cannot see any evidence of why his opinion should be rejected off hand. I would bet that all of the folks making tonearms and tables have a backroom where they compare as many different tonearms and table combinations that they can get their hands on. I don't see many of these guys willing to post on what their observations are. Now, when we do get someone like Chris or Thom Mackris, who also has extensive experience with most of these arms, to post their opinions some of you don't want to debate on the merits of why they came to the conclusions they did. Some of you just want to throw rocks because they don't conform to your own opinions.

And it seems that this petty bullshit now extends towards others in this community. Aren't most of us hobbyists here anymore? What is so damned important about insisting that everyone reach the same conclusion concerning what each of us prefer to hear?

If the posts here degrade to nothing but personal and baseless attacks then I'm afraid this forum will no longer be any different than most every other internet chat room where the trolls rule.