great vinyl sound cost as much as great cd sound

Karma/All
I disagree that a VPI Cleaning machine "is a must", it certainly is not a must, especially for the biginning hobbyist, with 2-3 dozen Lp's in their collection.

A hobbyist in time, with the accumilation of countless LP's or one who buys many second hand, that have been initially somewhat mistreated will find a Machine such as this a great value to them, saving mucho time, and effort, but I see to technical supportive evidence myself, that a hand cleaned LP with the right products can't be every bit as microscopically clean as an LP cleaned with a VPI 17.5 machine.

I see reference many times to folks saying "Oh, after I clean my LPs with the 17.5, my LPs have never shined so much, like mirrors! That IMO is a bit of a fallicy, in that if it was doing some sort of polishing buffing to the LP's surface-grooves, it would actually be more a detriment, than a help to achieve pristine clean Vinyl.

I may open some eyes with my opinions, but the advantages to machine cleaning are 1. Time saved per LP cleaning, and 2. Lots less elbow grease needed when the machine is doing the majority of the work for you.

If one acquires a few LPs here, and there, manual cleaning can suffice very well, and only takes a small amount of one's time to achieve desired results.

Handling, and packaging after cleaning are important considerations, and if one hypothetically uses a big dollar cleaning machine, then resorts to placing that very same LP back into a 1 cent paper sleeve that looks like you washed the floor with, and with dirty-greasy hands that don't properly handle the LP, much, if not all of that effort is totally wasted. Mark

To Markd51:

OK, let me rephrase then: cleaning records is a must, if you want CD-quiet sound, (providing the Lp was well-taken care of to begin with. I've done it both ways, by hand and now by machine; doing it by hand was a pain in the..., but to each his own. Of course, one may buy any record cleaning machine he wants, it doesn't have to be a VPI.
Some would argue that rotating a brush around a record without vacuuming (sp) just rotates around the particulates.

Hi Jdaniel, Yep, I think we'll all agree about that! ;-)

To be honest, I have lusted for a good cleaning machine for years, and I'd be quite tickled owning either of the VPI's. Sadly, I've put it off, put it off, always making some sort of excuse 'naw, I can live wthout it a bit longer, but yet the LP collection continued to grow, usually in spurts.

I won't buy LP's for months, then the bug hits again, and here we go again, a Mo-Fi here, a re-issue there, and sometimes the obscure, but very cool oldie in an antique-record shop.

In fact, recently, I've got my eye on an old mint Louis Armstrong Box set that must be from the late '50's-early '60's. Asking price $30, but I might spring the dough for the heck of it before it disappears. If I recall, the Lps were purple vinyl Hmmm? Unusual.

To relate to the original poster again, I've heard great things about emmlabs gear, although never personally heard their digital. I'm sure it's a flooring experience hearing thr CD done well.
I have heard top of the line Levinson, and Krell though, so I can appreciate the capabilities of the high end, and the improvments heard with CD playback through state of the art.

Still, in some ways, I don't think you'd have to equal that high end digital price with vinyl to find a very satisfying sound, that will make you sit back, and smile.

Debates such as these can on on for years on end, the topic of LP vs CD, and truthfully, I feel both formats have their advantages-strengths, and their drawbacks-deficiencies.

For analog, there's certainly been many down this path in the know, and have learned (Usually the hard, and costly way) the synergistic combination of equipment that go well together (Turntable-Arm-Cartridge-Pre-Amp)
Mark

Great vinyl sound seems to cost more than great CD sound, but once you get to the high end, analog really can pull ahead. I've had the chance to compare the CDSD/DCC2 to a Brinkmann Balance/Brinkmann arm/Lyra Titan/Lamm LP2 setup. SACD vs LP was close. I preferred the LP in the comparisons, but someone could easily prefer the SACD. LP vs red book was no comparison on any of the three albums I had to compare (Radiohead - Amnesiac, Modest Mouse - The Moon Over Antartica, A Perfect Circle - Mer de Noms).

I'm seriously considering adding a high end analog setup to my system plan, but it is a lot of money. There are a lot of best-of-the-best digital solutions for less than the Brinkmann setup would cost me. As far as less expensive analog goes, I'm not sure it's worth the trouble. It has to be really good for me to be willing to deal with flipping over the first record, then putting on the second, then flipping it over to get the same music I get on one side of a CD.

I agree with jdaniel - after spending what you did on CD - you might not want to realize that you could have better sound for less.

I don’t agree with Fbhifi – an entry level TT’s, cart., and preamp can do amazing things at a fraction of the cost of the EEM labs Digital setup.

I have the VPI Scout and Dynavector Karat (whatever mkII), and Rogue Audio Stealth preamp - A somewhat modest vinyl rig. You won’t find digital that sounds this smooth anywhere. It’s just a different sound (more organic IMHO) - as you move up the scale it just gets better (while digital is as good as it’s gonna get with your setup).

Also, RCM’s are about the same. You put the liquid on then have a vacuum suck it off. Spending lots of money on that is for convenience only. I’ve tried my el cheapo Record Doctor II and the VPI – and there was no noticeable difference.

This is all IMHO! You won’t change my mind about any of this – I’ve compared, questioned, compared again, and have a decent ear – but you may convince yourself of anything you want to ;)