Setting anti-skate

Nsgarch and I are getting closer to agreement now, because I agree that different stylus shapes require different anti-skating force, and that a blank record must also be different than a real groove. The interaction of the stylus with groove undulations definitely makes a difference in skating force, which agrees with other comments heard here that skating force varies with groove modulation. I just think a blank record is a good starting point, before fine tuning of the anti-skating. I think its about as accurate as trying to observe motion of the needle upon dropping it into a groove. Its a lot more difficult to see the needle move a little, than seeing an arm skaing across a smooth record! Plus keep in mind that many cueing devices don't exactly set the arm down straight AND many records have a little out-of-round wabble. These will give the stylus some sideways motion also. Furthermore, we need to figure out a final step which ACCURATLY provides the real adjustment. I think the only way to do this right, is by playing various test tones, and comparing right and left channel distortion on a distortion analyzer. Without this equipment, I agree that listening is the next best way.

Warjarret, as I said earlier, years ago I used the blank vinyl method, and I ALWAYS wound up with a far higher AS setting than recommended by either the arm or cartridge manufacturer, or by my visual inspection. It consistently yields AS values that are WAY overkill -- I'm not sure why that is (I quit doing it a long time ago) but it may simply be that the unconstrained diamond tip on a highly polished surface is too unstable a mechanical assembly, sucseptable to air currents, TA internal wiring, irregularities in the vinyl surface or whatever, but it always took two to three times the nominal AS force to keep the arm in place.
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...we need to figure out a final step which ACCURATLY provides the real adjustment.

Warjarret,
I think you're engaging in antiskate overkill. As I said above, there is no such thing as a perfect antiskate setting. The very notion is impossible and you've described the reasons why yourself. This search for ultimate "accuracy" is more hopeless than the search for the Holy Grail. It simply doesn't exist. It can't exist.

I think the only way to do this right, is by playing various test tones, and comparing right and left channel distortion on a distortion analyzer.

No test tones can accurately emulate the variable vinyl formulations, variable groove modulations and variable arm positions we encounter on real records. Why measure some theoretical value that bears only an accidental and occasional relationship to constantly changing real world conditions? What's the point?

Without this equipment, I agree that listening is the next best way.

No, it is a better way. The subtlest effects of excess antiskate would not even be detected by a distortion analyzer, since they have nothing to do with distortion or mistracking.

The physical effect of excess antiskate is a constraining lateral pressure on the cantilever/suspension interface. This dampens HF response and muffles microdynamics. Nothing to do with distortion. You'd have to set antiskate far WORSE before distortion began to occur.

Your ears and brain are capable of very subtle "measurements" if you trust them and train them. You may not be able to quantify the results, which I sense might bother you, but with practice you will hear the results and you will be able to repeat them. All the "roughing in" methods we've discussed tend to set antiskate too high. From there, reduce it until you get full HF extension and maximum microdynamics.

Then relax and enjoy the music. :-)
Doug

Dougdeacon..."I think you're engaging in antiskate overkill". You don't say! But isn't the audiophile hobby one big exercise in overkill? How about VTF scales that read out to 0.01gram?

As I mentioned before, for many years we got along with arms that had no antiskating: VTF had to be a bit higher. We agree that however you set it, antiskating is some kind of average value which works OK over most of the disc area. My research into antiskating adjustments, and all the other critical adjustments of a pivoting arm, led me to use a linear tracking arm, and the one I have does not exhibit the different problems that some say come with linear tracking.

Thanks for asking a great question, Rich! The answers here have shown me how to get that little extra from my rb300/rega. I hadn't really been that concerned about tweaking this set up to the nth degree. To keep it short, I've gone back through this method for AS and found that the rb300 was dialed a little high, that is, enough to see a clear deflection. After correcting to get back to almost no perceptible diflection I tweaked it back up just a tad. It did make a small, but noticeable improvement in dynamics and clarity.