Cdwallace; i will respond to your points;
you write;"I agree completely. However, I must point out that personal preference for vinyl (subjective) should not be passed as knowledge of the topic at hand, is digital actually better than analog. To appropriately answer this question, I would assume it would require knowledge of both pro's and con's of both analog and digital (non-subjective). Again like I said before, everyone has and is entitled to thier own personal preference. But how can one provide an unbiased answer unless preference is removed and factual pro's and con's are processed (facts). Intepretation of the result is then left to the question poser (subjective)."
to me the 'better' or 'best' are improper to use toward art.....'prefer', 'more satisfying', 'more life-like to my ears', 'more involving'......would all be ways i would describe how i view vinyl in relation to digital. i could care less about any subjective reasons. music is art. i eat organic fruit and vegtables because they taste much better. my wife tells me they are better for me for some objective reasons. i don't care about that.
the reasons i had sworn off getting involved in this subject again is that the whole need to find objective justifications why i like something gets in the way of the enjoyment and confuses what is important. why simply does not matter....TO ME.
i say....JUST LISTEN.
you wrote; "Would this constitute suffient explaination of why CD sales alone almost unreachably exceed vinyl sales, when factoring sales of CD's and vinyl outside of the perameters of "high end" or audiophile reproductions?"
digital is a market driven product...and every new digital advance is market driven. the obvious ease of production and use of digital media and the economic force it causes are responsible for who buys what. performance audio issues drive vinyl.....and the maket for performance 2-channel audio is small (but feisty).
you wrote;"This speaks volumes to me, care to be a little more specific, based on your experiences?"
the whole culture of vinyl (buying, the 'art' aspect of album covers', cleaning, diferent pressings, tt set-up, taking the vinyl out of the sleeve, putting it on the tt, cueing the arm, dropping the needle, un-muting the preamp, then waiting for the music)....is all like foreplay. there is a small element of that with digital but it is truely different. anticipation is part of it. then the much more involving musical experience; which many times is soooo immersive as to 'demand' attention'. the relaexed nature of vinyl causes your body to be at ease. it is difficult to not pay attention. my body knows when i have listened to vinyl. it is physical. one of life's true pleasures.
OTOH digital gets a much lower portion of my attention; i need to concentrate to be immersed into digital and the level of calmness and serenity is greatly reduced. it is there....digital is not to be dismissed...but it is limited sensually.
with vinyl you are concentrating on the event.....digital is a little more about the sound.
you wrote; "Much appreciated but still subjective to some degree. Being experienced in both areas, can you help me understand how you came to this mindset, based on factual information and results?"
if i were making an objective checklist of what the best vinyl does better than the best digital (and now we can use the word 'better').....
--much more bandwidth...lots more information....dramatically so.
--much more dynamic.....particularly micro-dynamic.
--much lower noise floor. there are many Lps where you can easily hear music that digital only vaguely hints at. noise on digital....musical content on vinyl.
--continuous. no gaps.
i realize that my above interpretations of my perceptions fly in the face of some widely accepted opinions on digital. on previous threads regarding this subject i have attempted to discuss these issues. at a certain point i decided that it was not productive to do so....and i simply did not make the points again. i could care less what some measurements say. anyone that has heard the comparison in my room would easily ageee with my points.
it is clear to anyone that listens...at the SOTA.
you write;"I agree completely. However, I must point out that personal preference for vinyl (subjective) should not be passed as knowledge of the topic at hand, is digital actually better than analog. To appropriately answer this question, I would assume it would require knowledge of both pro's and con's of both analog and digital (non-subjective). Again like I said before, everyone has and is entitled to thier own personal preference. But how can one provide an unbiased answer unless preference is removed and factual pro's and con's are processed (facts). Intepretation of the result is then left to the question poser (subjective)."
to me the 'better' or 'best' are improper to use toward art.....'prefer', 'more satisfying', 'more life-like to my ears', 'more involving'......would all be ways i would describe how i view vinyl in relation to digital. i could care less about any subjective reasons. music is art. i eat organic fruit and vegtables because they taste much better. my wife tells me they are better for me for some objective reasons. i don't care about that.
the reasons i had sworn off getting involved in this subject again is that the whole need to find objective justifications why i like something gets in the way of the enjoyment and confuses what is important. why simply does not matter....TO ME.
i say....JUST LISTEN.
you wrote; "Would this constitute suffient explaination of why CD sales alone almost unreachably exceed vinyl sales, when factoring sales of CD's and vinyl outside of the perameters of "high end" or audiophile reproductions?"
digital is a market driven product...and every new digital advance is market driven. the obvious ease of production and use of digital media and the economic force it causes are responsible for who buys what. performance audio issues drive vinyl.....and the maket for performance 2-channel audio is small (but feisty).
you wrote;"This speaks volumes to me, care to be a little more specific, based on your experiences?"
the whole culture of vinyl (buying, the 'art' aspect of album covers', cleaning, diferent pressings, tt set-up, taking the vinyl out of the sleeve, putting it on the tt, cueing the arm, dropping the needle, un-muting the preamp, then waiting for the music)....is all like foreplay. there is a small element of that with digital but it is truely different. anticipation is part of it. then the much more involving musical experience; which many times is soooo immersive as to 'demand' attention'. the relaexed nature of vinyl causes your body to be at ease. it is difficult to not pay attention. my body knows when i have listened to vinyl. it is physical. one of life's true pleasures.
OTOH digital gets a much lower portion of my attention; i need to concentrate to be immersed into digital and the level of calmness and serenity is greatly reduced. it is there....digital is not to be dismissed...but it is limited sensually.
with vinyl you are concentrating on the event.....digital is a little more about the sound.
you wrote; "Much appreciated but still subjective to some degree. Being experienced in both areas, can you help me understand how you came to this mindset, based on factual information and results?"
if i were making an objective checklist of what the best vinyl does better than the best digital (and now we can use the word 'better').....
--much more bandwidth...lots more information....dramatically so.
--much more dynamic.....particularly micro-dynamic.
--much lower noise floor. there are many Lps where you can easily hear music that digital only vaguely hints at. noise on digital....musical content on vinyl.
--continuous. no gaps.
i realize that my above interpretations of my perceptions fly in the face of some widely accepted opinions on digital. on previous threads regarding this subject i have attempted to discuss these issues. at a certain point i decided that it was not productive to do so....and i simply did not make the points again. i could care less what some measurements say. anyone that has heard the comparison in my room would easily ageee with my points.
it is clear to anyone that listens...at the SOTA.
