2. analog
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Analog experiment

Hi everyone. Some of you will remember my post from a couple weeks back about trying out vinyl. My dealer setup that old AR for me and I listened to it for a while and then listened to the same records on a new Pro-Ject RM 6 SB with a Sumiko Blue Point #2 cartridge. I liked the Pro-Ject better so I took it home for an audition in my system.

I borrowed some basically new LPs from my dealer's collection. Most of them are the 180 gm. "audiophile grade" limited editions. I got U2 War, Eagles Hell Freezes Over, John Lee Hooker, Pink Floyd DSOTM and REM Document. I was familiar with all these and own the CD counterpart of each album for direct comparisons.

I carefully setup the turntable making sure it was level. My dealer has been selling turntables for decades so I trust the other adjustments. I used the C42 to level-match the outputs of my Sony C333ES SACD player and the Pro-Ject, again for fair direct comparisons.

I listened to each album on its own on the turntable and then I went back and played the Sony in parallel. I switched between the two sources from my listening chair. In this case, I would keep the turntable 40 seconds ahead of the Sony so every 40 seconds I could hear the exact same passage in digital form. Hearing memory is short so I kept the interval short. I also made longer comparisons to be sure of my thoughts.

The bottom line is that the Pro-Ject didn't sound any better than my Sony. They had exactly the same tonality and soundstaging. On DSOFTM in SACD, the Sony was virtually indistinguishable from the turntable. I couldn't believe it. This is the first time I can't hear a reliable difference between two different components.

With other records, the turntable seemed to have a slightly more extended and weightier bottom end. But then the Sony had slightly better definition so it was a wash. After these tests, I see no reason for me to go with vinyl. You think maybe the phono stage in my C42 isn't good enough? Or maybe the turntable should be a better one? Well then, I am even less interested in vinyl if that is the case. The Sony costs about $350 these days.

I am sure some of you will be upset with my decision but I have to say I was excited to try it out and I kept my outlook totally unbiased. I loved the looks of the Pro-Ject and my dealer has an awesome collection of vinyl for sale at really good prices so I wanted to tap into that. But I don't see any reason to do that now. Oh well!

Arthur
aball
rnm4
308 posts
 
I don't think 40 second intervals are even close to long enough to acclimate your ears to what you are hearing, and allow you to appreciate the differences that matter. Your strategy was extremely artificial, and your head cannot have been into the music at all -- just the sound. Your brain will also under such circumstances attempt to normalize what it receives.

I had friends over the other night, and we listened to a bunch of music -- several songs from a given LP or CD at a time -- in a casual, talk-over-it-if-you-like-kind-of-way. People seemed a helluva lot more inclined to talk over the CDs than the LP. They even talked about how good the CDs sounded. But they shut up (more anyway) and listened to the music when the LPs played. Not a scientific test, by any means (but then neither was yours). But I find this typical.
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jyprez's avatar
jyprez
241 posts
 
Arthur, you are right in realizing that you must find the right pressings to get the analog sound. It is difficult (or easy but expensive) to put together a good vinyl collection today that allows you to enjoy the advantages of vinyl over CD. Believe me, (and countless others on Agon) these advantages are real but if you are starting from scratch, the biggest problem is software not hardware. Ebay does afford a vast collection but you will pay dearly for the most sought after LP's. On the other hand, there are hundreds of nice LP's for under $10. It's all a question of where your musical tastes lie and what is the best way to satisfy them. But remember, the best analog rig in the world will not make a digitally mastered LP sound anything better than a CD.
pauly
1,012 posts
 
Different strokes. Nobody should be upset at your decision, it is your money and you need to spend it on what works for you.

Personally, when I hear good digital setup vs. a good analogue setup, I cannot really tell which one sounds better - I enjoy both.

What I did find is that I can listen to analogue for many hours (4-5) in a single sitting without fatigue or loss of interest. With digital I found myself getting distracted after about 30-45 minutes and would normally not be interested in listening more than an hour and half tops.

I had a digital-only setup for about ten years. During that time I almost lost interest in the audiophile hobby and weeks went by without me even sitting down to listen. I went back to analogue about 5 years ago and since then my listening time has increased dramatically.

It may just be the fact that going through the motions (i.e. hassles) of playing LPs is entertaining to me? :-)

Regards
Paul
opalchip
355 posts
 
Without knowing the specifics of which lp's you used - keep in mind that many of the so-called 180 gram "audiophile" remasters are nothing of the sort. Many (if not most) have been digitized, slightly re-EQ'ed, and then pressed into mediocre vinyl with little skill evident in the cutting process. Then they sell it for more than you'd have to pay for a mint original pressing in many cases!

Also, some of the newer LP's you mentioned were ORIGINALLY digitally recorded and/or mastered. REM Document is DDD I believe, and U2 War is ADD - so those are not valid test subjects. Digital cut into vinyl is just degraded digital - it's a miracle the vinyl didn't sound slightly worse.

And certainly too, there are some very well done CD reissues - and I'm sure that DSOTM is one of them. But I'd suggest that if you plan on having eventually having a deep and wide music collection with many titles and genres - not just "audiophile picks", CD alone won't cut it.

Also, and this is truly not a value judgement - the type of music you demo'ed with seems more oriented to dynamics, slam, intensity - i.e. rockin' - which CD does fairly well. If you also listen to classical and jazz, I would argue that you need to give vinyl a further try as to it's ability to reproduce subtlety and nuance - such as comparing an early Rudy Van Gelder mastered Blue Note lp with a CD reissue. Or a Starker Solo Cello on a Living Presence RFR-1 pressing compared to it's CD counterpart.

Vinyl does have it's drawbacks, but for those of us who are interested in extensive collections of pre-1980's music, the original vinyl is very often much better than a CD reissue (if it even exists) - if only because so many CD's are poorly mastered or produced from degraded copies of master tapes.
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