2. analog
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Analog experiment

Hi everyone. Some of you will remember my post from a couple weeks back about trying out vinyl. My dealer setup that old AR for me and I listened to it for a while and then listened to the same records on a new Pro-Ject RM 6 SB with a Sumiko Blue Point #2 cartridge. I liked the Pro-Ject better so I took it home for an audition in my system.

I borrowed some basically new LPs from my dealer's collection. Most of them are the 180 gm. "audiophile grade" limited editions. I got U2 War, Eagles Hell Freezes Over, John Lee Hooker, Pink Floyd DSOTM and REM Document. I was familiar with all these and own the CD counterpart of each album for direct comparisons.

I carefully setup the turntable making sure it was level. My dealer has been selling turntables for decades so I trust the other adjustments. I used the C42 to level-match the outputs of my Sony C333ES SACD player and the Pro-Ject, again for fair direct comparisons.

I listened to each album on its own on the turntable and then I went back and played the Sony in parallel. I switched between the two sources from my listening chair. In this case, I would keep the turntable 40 seconds ahead of the Sony so every 40 seconds I could hear the exact same passage in digital form. Hearing memory is short so I kept the interval short. I also made longer comparisons to be sure of my thoughts.

The bottom line is that the Pro-Ject didn't sound any better than my Sony. They had exactly the same tonality and soundstaging. On DSOFTM in SACD, the Sony was virtually indistinguishable from the turntable. I couldn't believe it. This is the first time I can't hear a reliable difference between two different components.

With other records, the turntable seemed to have a slightly more extended and weightier bottom end. But then the Sony had slightly better definition so it was a wash. After these tests, I see no reason for me to go with vinyl. You think maybe the phono stage in my C42 isn't good enough? Or maybe the turntable should be a better one? Well then, I am even less interested in vinyl if that is the case. The Sony costs about $350 these days.

I am sure some of you will be upset with my decision but I have to say I was excited to try it out and I kept my outlook totally unbiased. I loved the looks of the Pro-Ject and my dealer has an awesome collection of vinyl for sale at really good prices so I wanted to tap into that. But I don't see any reason to do that now. Oh well!

Arthur
aball
hals_den
77 posts
 
Over the past several months I've been digitizing lots of 60's and 70's LPs for a friend. I'm using a Bang & Olufsen 4002 turntable with a Soundsmith SMMC20EN cartridge through a Grado PH-1 phono pre-amp to a $40 iMic to an iMac G5 and the free Final Vinyl software. The music files are all uncompressed AIFF files and are subsequently burned at the slowest speed onto CDRs. When I A/B the CDs played on my Marantz DV 8400 to the vinyl I have never preferred the vinyl playback and a lot of times preferred the CD and sometimes couldn't hear a difference. I have heard a phrase (analog coloration) and my theory is that the gross distortions that color vinyl reproduction actually tricks peoples hearing into a better listening mode. I love my CDs burned from vinyl and even sometimes cassette tapes. I can crank it up even with the subwoofer rockin' and hear all the glorious distortion of analog with the convenience of digital.
I'd keep the turntable as an utilitarian and enjoyable analog playback machine for abundantly cheap used vinyl and for numerous recordings never released on CD. That's if you can spare the space and don't mind the extra labor that LP playback deserves.
aball OP
2,018 posts
 
Thanks for all your thoughts.

Rnm4 - As I said already, I did listen to at least one side of all the LPs before ever turning on the CD player. This represented a little more than 3 hours of analog listening before going to CD. Maybe 3 hours isn't enough either but the differences were very clear the whole time so I think it gave me a pretty good idea before the quick A/B session. I will continue to listen to it this week and if the sound drastically changes all of a sudden, I will let you know.

I trust my dealer. We are very good friends and I spend many hours a month in his store. He has had numerous vinyl rigs in store and in his system in the last 30 years. To say he doesn't know how to adjust one, I feel, is incorrect. He is very meticulous (more so than just about anyone I have ever met) and wouldn't tolerate something not being perfectly set. I don't think wrong adjustments are to be considered as a variable here.

It sounds like my original suspicion was right. So many LPs aren't very good recordings - the same problem CDs have. Well then analog doesn't make any sense for me. The first system I ever remember my parents having when I was growning up was CD-based and the first piece of music I ever bought was on CD. I have about 1200 CDs and I have designed my system to make CDs very enjoyable. I took great care to match components that won't make me lose interest in CD playback after an hour. Instead I listen entire evenings in one sitting (except for getting drinks of course :).

I think that if you don't like CD playback, then the setup isn't right. Same story some of you gave me for the analog not sounding right. It is a two way street! There is a lot of overlap between the two so it can't be that one is always worse or better than the other - which I why I posted my results here. I see that some of you already agree with me on this point.

I think for my tastes and collection of music, I will be perfectly happy to stick with my CD players. If I really want analog, I can listen to my Sony and pretend it is a Pro-Ject playing a perfectly clean record. ;) Thanks again

A
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drubin
3,277 posts
 
My experience has been that switching rapidly between one component and another obscures the differences we normally hear when we listen to one, pause, and then listen to the other. Or it may be that the second approach exaggerates the differences. But in terms of hearing the magic of vinyl that so many audiophiles describe, I am not surprised at the results you got given your evaluation methodology.
david_berry
211 posts
 
Good experiment Arthur. This is what I envision as part of the audio hobby: trying out different things and relaying the experience.

I just bought a new VPI Scout / JMW 9 tonearm / Dynavector DV20XL cart / Dynavector P-75 phono and have done comparisons with new vinyl and its corresponding SACD version. I like vinyl better - haven't really disected why.

David
jaybo
4,478 posts
 
the blue point #2 (i have one idle) doesn't really make it happen. there are actually better mm's for the same money. that said, the only reason to have different front ends (phono, cd, tuner, etc) is to have access to recordings that are exclusive to that media. this is about buying, listening and collecting music......as for your shoot out, a project with a no.2 competing with a nice sony front end is a big win for the phono.
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