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Analog experiment

Hi everyone. Some of you will remember my post from a couple weeks back about trying out vinyl. My dealer setup that old AR for me and I listened to it for a while and then listened to the same records on a new Pro-Ject RM 6 SB with a Sumiko Blue Point #2 cartridge. I liked the Pro-Ject better so I took it home for an audition in my system.

I borrowed some basically new LPs from my dealer's collection. Most of them are the 180 gm. "audiophile grade" limited editions. I got U2 War, Eagles Hell Freezes Over, John Lee Hooker, Pink Floyd DSOTM and REM Document. I was familiar with all these and own the CD counterpart of each album for direct comparisons.

I carefully setup the turntable making sure it was level. My dealer has been selling turntables for decades so I trust the other adjustments. I used the C42 to level-match the outputs of my Sony C333ES SACD player and the Pro-Ject, again for fair direct comparisons.

I listened to each album on its own on the turntable and then I went back and played the Sony in parallel. I switched between the two sources from my listening chair. In this case, I would keep the turntable 40 seconds ahead of the Sony so every 40 seconds I could hear the exact same passage in digital form. Hearing memory is short so I kept the interval short. I also made longer comparisons to be sure of my thoughts.

The bottom line is that the Pro-Ject didn't sound any better than my Sony. They had exactly the same tonality and soundstaging. On DSOFTM in SACD, the Sony was virtually indistinguishable from the turntable. I couldn't believe it. This is the first time I can't hear a reliable difference between two different components.

With other records, the turntable seemed to have a slightly more extended and weightier bottom end. But then the Sony had slightly better definition so it was a wash. After these tests, I see no reason for me to go with vinyl. You think maybe the phono stage in my C42 isn't good enough? Or maybe the turntable should be a better one? Well then, I am even less interested in vinyl if that is the case. The Sony costs about $350 these days.

I am sure some of you will be upset with my decision but I have to say I was excited to try it out and I kept my outlook totally unbiased. I loved the looks of the Pro-Ject and my dealer has an awesome collection of vinyl for sale at really good prices so I wanted to tap into that. But I don't see any reason to do that now. Oh well!

Arthur
aball
jj2468
280 posts
 
Arthur,
For fun, take your Sony to your dealor and repeat the experiment exactly as you did at home on one (or more) systems other than what you have at home. Doing so will help determine whether your results are specific to your test setup or whether you prefer cd to vinyl in a more generalized manner. Then, trust your ears. I appreciate the test you did and look forward to the results of you taking your Sony to the dealor (if you choose to do so). Jeff
aball OP
2,016 posts
 
Jeff - That is a good idea and I will do that for sure. My dealer will love to hear the test as well - he is always up for comparisons.

Shardorne - you crack me up!

For the record, I don't prefer CD over vinyl. I prefer my Sony SCD-C333ES over the Pro-Ject RM 6 SB with Blue Point #2 cartridge in my own system and with my type of music.

Arthur
dan_ed
2,451 posts
 
Aball says

"However, I do know that many used LPs I have looked at in the past looked really rough and I don't see myself using them in a high resolution stereo."

Maybe the samples you saw were too rough, but often one does not really know until the stylus meets the vinyl. Of my 1000 or so records I would say that close to 90% were purchased used. Until I clean them and actually play them I still can't tell from looking at them how they will sound. Obviously, there are always exceptions and with experience I've learned how to pass by many that just aren't going to play well at all. But with most others it is not so simple. I have records that have scratches across them but when played don't make a sound. Then again, I have some that look perfect, and this includes some of those newly purchased audiophile pressings you mention, that have clicks and the occasional pop.

But I do understand your position because I've taken the same stance regarding SACD. I just can't see buying into that format when the selection is somewhat limited. That could change, but with the growing DVD-A selections I think that would make more sense for me. And I think DVD-A is much better sonically than SACD.

Anyway, I know I will always have analog and digital in my system. Good luck in your search and enjoy the journey!
jyprez's avatar
jyprez
241 posts
 
Pawlowski6132, I would agree there are lots of cheap LP's out there but in my opinion Arthur would not find most of them to be of satisfactory quality (i.e. low noise) Dofferent people have different tollerences for this but a very well cared for '50's LP generally cannot be found at the local Salvation Army LP bin and costs big bucks on Ebay.
As to hearing the differences between LP's and CD's many posters above were right on the money with their advice in my opinion. You can't do this with 40 second sound bites. Put on an LP or CD and then think about something else like what you need to do that day. If after 15 or 20 minutes you find your toes involuntarily tapping and your fingers snapping - that's the real deal - ignore all else.
aball OP
2,016 posts
 
Ok - I got some other vinyl and have been listening to the turntable for 3 days now, off and on, seriously, casually and as background music. This should take care of those who got hung up on the one part of my test were 40 second bites were used. I have been working at home a good bit lately so I listened a whole lot. So here are my thoughts at this point:

It doesn't have as much definition as my CD players and the rhythm and pace kind of suffers as a result. The toe tapping is induced but not as much as my CD players where their better control of leading edges gives the music a pulse of life the turntable can't quite match. Its ability to keep complex music clear and layered is another shortcoming, probably due to the same problem. The differences are slight, of course, but they are there.

However, the bass is excellent - good weight and strength and probably betters my digital sources in many cases. But I am not a bass freak and pace for me plays a bigger role in my decision to keep something or not. The coherence, soundstaging, high frequency extension and midrange smoothness were all basically like I am used to hearing - which means, very good.

When I take it back to my dealer, I will bring my Sony or Prima along too so we can hear them there together. Though some of you will dismiss this test because it doesn't go on for days, I am curious to see if anything will change in another system. But my system is what counts so it probably won't change my mind regardless.

I really enjoyed my time with the Pro-Ject. The problem with definition is an issue though because it hurts the musicality and "liveness" which are core requirements for my tastes. Maybe a different turntable or cartridge would improve it but I already have better for less money so I don't have a drive to try another analog setup. I am satisfied with the conclusion that my CD players are all I need. I am going to buy a few hundred CDs instead of the turntable, disc cleaner, and new LP collection. Thanks for all your comments.

Arthur
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