MM to MC back to MM

In reply to Ctm the output impedance for the Denon is 40 ohms and for the Ortofon 800 ohms according to the cartridge database.I had the Denon loaded at 100 ohms.I tried other loadings with it 47 ohms,220,1Kohm that had been suggested but the 100 ohms manufacturer's suggested was obviously more correct.The Ortofon went through the same stage's MM side with 100pf.The stage I'm using now has a 45Kohm with 300pf setting.This is just about what the VMS 20 prefers as most MM stages are 47Kohm.The Ortofon used to have a little clip-on device to vary the capacitance if you so desired but I have never seen one.So what I can say is that I heard the Denon in a lot of guises and got to know it quite well.I stand by the Ortofon as a "poor man's Koetsu".I think that the Linn K 18 Mk 11 MM must rank as one of my favourite cartridges. It was the one that initially woke me up to the fact that MM's can go stride for stride with MC's.That was only with an elliptical stylus too.I hear it doing even more now with a conical stylus.The level that is way past the "silky" epiphets.It plays the record.The other night I played some English Beatles pressings through the right channel to listen to the stereo mix.It was perfect for every nuance.I don't want to tell you how long I have not heard these records.

Jsman - Thanks for posting your questions. It highlighted this very important discission of determining if one can objectively evaluate a MM vs. a MC cartridge.

Congratulations on your new TT purchase. I am glad you started a new thread to obtain more MM and MC cartridge suggestions. The cartridges already mentioned in this thread are great starting points. Let us know your findings.

Stefanl - I was referring to the voltage outputs of each cartridge @ 1Khz, 50 mm/sec. From the informative database, the Denon DL103 is a MC unit whose output ranges from 0.12 - 0.3 mV vs. 5.0 mV for the moving iron Ortofon VMS-20 E Mk II.

I originally thought your phonostage is one that is either a MM or a MC. I see now that the phonostage you are using has a MM and a MC section. Thanks for clarifying. So essentially the capabilities of your phonostage is the same as that for Eldartford and others whose phonostages have a MM and MC settings. One of my phonostages also has this capability.

What is your phonostage? It would be interesting to know the design of its MM and the MC sections. I also want to know to what extent you have investigated that the performance of both sections is identical so that neither the MM nor the MC stages introduce an effect that confounds the MM vs. MC comparison. In other words, how do you know that the differences you hear when comparing MM and MC cartridges are only due to the distinct sonic signature of each cartridge? In my original post and in my responses to Eldartford I listed some of the difficulties one runs into when trying to objectively interpret the results of a MM vs. a MC cartridge comparison.

I would jump at the chance to AB MM/MC cartridges the way we can with cables and PCs, for example, with all other components being equal. In such evaluations only one variable changes -- the unit being investigated -- for a true apples-to-apples comparison. For other components like CD players, for example, it can also be done. However, it is not as simple because of the need to be sure that the volume levels are the same for each unit.

It would be great to hear from the designers.

Respectfully,

Ctm_cra...For clarification...the Tandberg preamp has two complete phono preamps built in. I don't think this is common, although there may be others. One approach is the have an additional booster stage that the MC goes through before the MM circuit, or the gain of the phono circuit can be changed by switch setting.

Eldartford - I know of several phonostages that have a MM stage that is completely separate from the MC stage in a single chassis.

As to the other approaches you suggest, the additional booster stage or the manner in which the gain is changed concerns me.

Regardless of the approach, the inherent sonic differences between a MM or MC phonostage (even if these are independent from one another within the same unit) are not easily determined.

Here is a long shot: Just thinking out loud here so pardon the lack of clarity... I suppose two sets of a few musical passages and test tones can be recorded on (heaven forbid) a CD. The volume differences from one set to another must be set appropriately to avoid overloading the respective stage for which they are meant to be used. This can then serve as the input to a phonostage. I know of burn-in CD that have appropriate output levels that allow you to feed line level output directly to the phonostage.

I realize that one can argue that this may also not be a one-to-one comparison. This may be the case, but if the volume differences are well executed on such a CD to achieve identical musical passages when played back though the system, this may be an acceptable (but definitely unconventional) way to determine the sonic differences of a MM vs. MC stage without using a cartridge. This could be as close as we can get to determining the sonic differences between the two stages (so long as the overall volume levels are the equalized when switching from one stage to another).

If after such an exercise you determine that your MM and MC stage have similar performance, then you can confidently interpret the results of a MM vs. MC comparison. So does such a test CD exist?

Regards,