Denon DL 103 vs DL 103R

Just to clarify things a bit: output on the 103 is .3 mV while the 103R is lower at .25 mV so ideal gain from an active phono stage is about 60 db with the 103 and 62 with the 103R. The 103 should probably be loaded around 100 ohms while the 103R should be loaded lower, probably in the 30-50 ohm range so this may be a consideration when looking at phono stages and/or transformers.

Paste this into your browser for a review here comparing both:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ranlg&1034089946&read&3&4&

While the standard 103 has its fans, research I did before buying a 103R indicated that the majority of those with experience with both cartridges preferred the R and felt it to be worth the extra money. It is anything but hi-fi-ish or analytical. In any event, I'm sure they are both very good cartridges, but remember that they deserve a very good phono stage as well which is something many people don't consider because of the low price of the Denons. The general concensus at this time is that if you stick one of Uwe's wood bodies on the Denons they are capable of embarassing much more expensive and exotic cartridges. The aluminum bodied Zu 103 at $399 seems to be another interesting alternative.

Grimace, you missed a point when you said "It does seem like the step-up transformers are considerably less expensive that full phone stages." As I tried to explain, a full phono stage includes both RIAA compensation and at least one gain stage. A step up transformer is only a gain stage so it cannot function by itself, it must feed a phone stage with the RIAA compensation. That is why they are (sometimes) less expensive.

Also, thanks Hdm for the correction on the 103R output.

OK. Seems there's more to using this cartridge than I would have thought. Am I understanding that there are phono stages that will work directly with this cartridge? Does anyone have any suggestions for a phono stage that would work with this cartridge without a SUT? I'd like to keep my purchases to no more than two items if possible.

Grimace, to operate either Denon straight into a phono stage, it should provide at least 60 dB of gain. Many will do so. And not to get you sidetracked here but offering adjustable loading would be important too. At the very least you will want to bring the load down from the standard 47K ohms to 100 or even less.

Now, a different consideration. I just checked your system and see you will be using a Grace 707 arm. If I remember correctly, this is a low mass arm so will not match well (resonance frequency) with either Denon cartridge.

To simplify your life (minimal purchases) I would suggest you research cartridges with 1.0 mV output or higher that are compatible (high compliance) with your 707 arm and that fall within your budget. This could be either a high output MC or a MM. Learn the proper set up procedure (archive search here and Vinyl Asylum) and go for it. After listening and learning about differences in SRA and VTF, see how well you are enjoying your system. Then, if need be you can begin to consider improvements. Good luck.

ditto Pryso. Not to confuse you but bear in mind that cartridge output specs can be referenced two ways, for example a .8mV@3.54cm/sec is the same as 1.13mV@5cm/sec. They don't always tell you which reference they use so a little research on what the standard is for that company is in order. As a further example, the Medium output MCs from Benz are .8mV@3.54cm/sec. This would be sufficient output for your phono stage and their compliance of 15 would be a minimum for that arm. The Denon 103 and 103R have a very low compliance of 5. Most MCs are going be a marginal match for that arm compliance-wise.