Subwoofer: should we even use them at all?

Here's the truth: low frequencies are subject to cancellation and reinforcement by normal room boundaries, resulting in uneven bass. This is unavoidable with any large speaker capable of putting out low bass, in a normal-sized room. If you have large speakers and you want to hear accurate low bass, you need the subwoofer (preferably two) to fill in the frequencies that are being cancelled by the room interaction. However, the addition of the sub(s) could exacerbate the reinforcement problem. Fortunately this can be dealt with in several ways including room treatment, repositioning, or signal processing/equalization.

If on the other hand you are using smaller speakers, the addition of one or two subs will add the low frequencies that you are missing.

Bo1972: did you try positioning the subs further out from the wall, closer to the listener position, to get better timing? I have my Velodyne DD18 on a low trolley. When I want the best performance I wheel it out, one foot or so in front of the speakers.

Yes I did try different places from the wall. I am a person who likes to test. Testing means; trying many different things.

The nice thing about testing is collecting information. This you use for the best endresult.

When I put it closer to the wall the dynamics are stronger. I will loose too much drive when I put it more away from the wall. The pro measurement gives you the freedom to put it were you want to.

My low freq. unit is made from ceramics. This one is a lot lighter compared to the material of the DD18.

That's why you have a much faster response. This is easily to hear in the level of integration.

Velodyne should use lighter material for a much faster response. Because they have every part for a good subwoofer. The only limitation is their timing.

The new level I have with my subwoofer is that you feel more energy. And I am not only talking about low freq. Also in freq above 80 hz you feel more energy.

The Audioquest Wild Dog and the Stillpoinst togheter give you a much higher level in speed. You need to hear it before you understand what it makes special and new.

IMO, a well executed subwoofer/mains system is very hard to beat. However, the "well-executed" part is the trick. All of the best sub implementations that I've heard use digital bass management and/or room correction and a lot of folks here won't go that way on principle.

If that approach bothers you, I'd agree that you might want to pass on adding a subwoofer. BTW, I'd never add a sub to Verity speakers (I own P/Es), unless you plan to ditch the bass pedestal units. The Parsifal design is terrific, and I love mine, but IME they are not designed for flat, extended bass response. Adding a sub without some EQ in the mid-bass would almost surely be a mess and, even with EQ, the octave to octave balance of the speaker would be substantially altered.

I agree with Martykl...a good combination is tough to beat in my opinion.

I cannot say if my own X1/Grand Slamms plus Velodyne DD18 would work for others...but it works for me. And I know more owners of the big Wilsons who DO use Subs with them (in parallel...not cutting off the Wilsons) than those who do NOT use them.

At below 40hz, I honestly find the solidity of foundation is wonderful, and I find the 'blending' to be quite good after months and months of fine tuning every few weeks.