Subwoofer: should we even use them at all?


Dear Community,

For years, I looked forward to purchasing a subwoofer. However, I recently became friends with someone in this field who is much more knowledgable than me. His system sounds amazing. He told me that subwoofers should be avoided because of the lack of coherence that inheres in adding a subwoofer. What do you guys think? I currently use Verity Parsifol Ovations.
elegal
Richard Vandersteen advocates the use of powered subs. Not only does it extend the bottom, but cleans the mids and highs as well
Rhyno,

While there's more than a little good info in your recap of JL's white paper, there's also some misinformation - not sure if it's yours or theirs.

Your description of port behavior may get the spirit of the design's performance more or less right, but it's not exactly correct: Ported enclosures are not merely a "trick" resulting from a port tuning phenomenon. A properly tuned ported box will drive the 3db down frequency lower from any given driver/suspension and will roll off faster below that point than the same system rolls off in a sealed box. That's more extended bass - no trick.

Bear in mind that, as you move lower from the tuning frequency, there will eventually be less bass output from the ported box, due to the more rapid roll-off below the tuning frequency. However, if the port tuning is low enough, as it is on many high-end ported subs (I believe most or all of the SVS subs can be tuned below 25hz, for example), that may not be an issue. For music, the rapid roll-off of a ported sub tuned this way will almost never be an issue.

However, there are definitely other trade-offs with a ported box and I personally do agree that it's much easier to get a good sounding set-up with sealed subwoofers than with ported designs.

As to positioning subs in/near the same plane as the mains, many of the external bass management/digital room correction (DRC) systems will delay the electrical signal to either sub or mains to account for the delta in distance between the sub and mains. This allows more flexibility in optimizing position of both the subs and mains, which may be optimized when they are far from the same plane.

I'm not sure whether JL's own system offers this, but I'm guessing that it doesn't. Since JL's products offer in-sub room correction, it shouldn't surprise that they suggest that it's where DRC belongs (and it also explains their recommendation on room positioning). Personally, I use an external bass management DRC system and enjoy the added placement flexibility.

Running the mains full-range may offer the simplest signal path, but it also eliminates one of IMO the biggest benefits a subwoofer offers. All drivers produce more distortion as frequency drops - the longer driver excursions required for lower frequencies will reduce linearity (increase distortion). The good news is that a high quality sub (like your JL which is among the highest quality IMO) is better equipped to handle the heavy lifting at low frequency than is the woofer in virtually all main speaker systems (even including your Magico, I'd think). If you actively low cut the mains, you remove the heavy lifting from their woofer and shift the burden to the subwoofer, where it belongs. Your mains will benefit from the narrower bandwidth they're being asked to handle. So, there's a trade-off; simplicity vs optimizing bandwidth to driver. Some may prefer the full-range option (I definitely don't), but that's a matter of personal preference not system optimization.

Also, you'd need to consider the room-correction side of the issue. If your DRC is in-sub, I assume that it's functional only to the sub's high cut frequency, yes? If so, and you cross the sub out at 60ish hz, you're only room correcting to that point. In every room that I've ever measured, serious response irregularities run up to 120ish hz and significant irregularities persist above 200hz. Below about 80hz, passive treatments become increasingly cumbersome. If you limit your DRC to 60hz and below, there's a lot of room clean-up that you're foregoing.

At the end of the day, I'd say that most of JL's advice (at least as you've characterized it) is sound, but I'd also note that it's definitely slanted in favor of selling their products.
Hi Martykl,

Thanks for another very detailed post. A question for your advice:

- I have Wilson X1s and am contemplating using the Wilson Active Crossover to cut them off below 38hz (as recommended by David Wilson)...and have the Active Crossover send a properly adjusted sub-38hz signal to my Velodyne DD18.

- Currently I run the X1s full range with a 2nd IC from my preamp to the Velodyne DD18

- I'd love to get a Thor...but that is serious money for a sub! (not to mention amp, cables, etc)

- I am told to expect a very significant improvement in the effortless of the X1s even with such a seemingly subtle change

(I use a Gryphon Colosseum amp to drive the X1s).

I have found tremendous improvement thru vibration isolation of my X1s (Ultra 5s, some mass damping of the upper modules)...and have been told that Actively crossing them over may even produce a greater improvement through even further reducing distortion from thermal, mechanical and cone excursion associated with these toughest/lowest frequencies.

Assuming it is professionally set up by the Wilson dealer who carefully adjusts the Active Crossover (crossover frequency, rolloff, phase, etc) including the sub38hz-signal to send to the Velodyne...what do you think? Worth a try?

I am told it is a great bang for buck given its "only" a Wilson Crossover and one extra IC.

WHAT KINDS OF IMPROVEMENTS WOULD YOU EXPECT ME TO HEAR (IF ANY?) Thanks for your advice!