New TT ideas please

Doug
Please could you explain to me who Michael Moore is?
Here in the UK this man is not a household name like he may be in the US?
I appologise however if my wording/sense of dialogue offends you.
My point was not so much about the blue pearl but about the Oracle versus Scheu in my own system.
I concluded that in my own system I obtained better results via the Oracle than i did with the scheu.
I was not however saying that it is a conclusively better deck,just that with what i use my preference was with the Oracle.
conversely i do agree with much that you say.
I choose to drive my Rock with an external motor using a non rubber belt?
This i feel gives greater security and solidity to the sound.
the result is quite subtle though.
There are instances that come into play which i feel we may have nearly all ignored!
Without reading this whole post again, has Hitari told us anything about how he intends to site the turntable?
this could have as much influence as the deck itself!
Thom
Where in the UK can i get to listen to one of your designs?
I'd love to hear one.

Terry,

No offense taken. My request to leave Michael Moore out of this should not have been included in a response to you. Sorry if that confused things.

I haven't heard a Scheu, just its larger and more capable derivatives (Teres/Galibier/Redpoint). Those tables began life as a DIY Scheu knock-off project, but they've spent years refining and upgrading every component. There's little about any of them that's comparable to a Scheu any longer. They're now in another league in virtually every respect, including price of course.

Glad to hear you've tried an external motor and non-elastic belt and agree on the differences, more or less. ;-) My partner and I happen to be acutely sensitive to transient skewing, so for us it's one of those big deals. YMMV of course.

100% agree with your question about how Hitari plans to site his table. Could make a huge difference. I once tried some very thin rubber discs beneath the feet of my 80 lb. table, just to protect the wood rack surface. They softened transients in a way we found intolerable. Everything matters...

Thom,

You mentioned that your listening group found that "too much" torque in the motor-platter coupling made the sound harsh. Chris's group has reported similar findings.

In our torque experiments (8 or 10 different drive belts, of which the familiar holographic mylar provided the maximum) we heard the same thing. The torque-ier the belt, the more the sound had a tendency to go "harsh".

However, our crazed habit of adjusting and recording SRA/VTA settings for each LP quickly led us to an important discovery. The problem is not "too much" torque. The problem is that different amounts of torque require different arm height settings. Get SRA/VTA right and there's no such thing as too much torque, at least up to the limits of our experiments to date. We'll test this further when Chris's rim drive motor arrives.

We have produced this result consistently and repeatably across many hundreds of LP's, with multiple drive belts. If you checked the notes on our oldest, most-played records, you'd observe a series of arm height settings. They're coded for the different belts we've advanced through. IN EVERY CASE, a change from one belt to any other belt required an identical change in arm height. If I pull out a record today that hasn't been played in a year or two, and so was last played with a less torquey belt, I can reliably calculate and dial in a new arm height based the old one, because there's a constant differential between each belt and the next.

The torque-ier the belt, the lower the arm must go, and by the same amount. We all know that lowering the arm reduces "harshness". This has worked consistently, with every belt, on every record.

We haven't yet heard too much torque and I'm not sure such a thing is possible. The exception would be if higher torque came with higher cogging, as Chris mentioned, but that wouldn't create sonic harshness. It would create waveform slewing and rebound, quite another thing to our ears.

Any thoughts?
Doug

The TT will be on a rack for the time being, but I will work diligently at isolation, be it on the rack, or on a dedicated shelf.

Anyone have an opinion on Acoustic Solid turntables? The One-to-One catches my eye. What little I can find is positive. Any thought here or via e-mail would be appreciated.

Intuitively, I have always thought that every technology has it's place, even within a given design. I have always had a hard time trusting a designer who espouses a one size fits all approach. It seems to me that implimenting layering of harder/lower mass to softer/higher mass plates with increasingly compliant interfaces as you get further from the plinth would be the way to go. This would allow evacuation of internal resonances to be optimized closer to the plinth, and disipation of them, and isolation from external resonances, further from the plinth. Somewhere, probably further from the plinth, the external motor would be coupled, but not so far as to inroduce too much compliancy between the motor and the platter.

Any thoughts on how best to minimize motor resonances in an external motor assembly? Is it better to decouple the motor from its housing with compliant material or to ridgedly couple the motor to the mass of the housing and isolating further downstream?

Thom?

Doug,

How is it possible that VTA is affected by belt torque? It would seem that truly proper VTA, as opposed to tonally judged VTA, would be a separate issue. It sounds like you're using a tone control to cover a problem.