do tubes rock ??

agreed w/ plugged & sean. your speakers need lots of power, which would require something like the Wolcotts (tube) or the CTC BBQ. (btw: i've heard the BBQ, and i didn't know it was 'only' $5k. sounds much much better than that--krell's $5k stuff cannot touch it.)

Yes tubes are able to Rock BUT.. As stated in previous posts the cost of a high power tube amp 100 wpc++ can get prohibative. The retube issue can also be costly. I also believe that the bass issue is in play as previously stated. My suggestion would be to check into a high current hybrid amp. Tube driver circuits with SS power. The cost and upkeep is greatly reduced in most instances and you can get plenty of power to drive your Thiels. Check out the Van Alstine 350hc or 550hc at Avahifi.com. Very worthy of your consideration.

Got me ALL riled up ! I think the el-34 is THE more definitive rock sound. A little 5881 vs el-34 comparison. I've only seen the 5881 used in the Mesa Baron high end amp which has an 'upgrade' to the el-34. My friend who owns one claims this is a much better sound. Anyway, I have heard/played direct comparisons of these tubes in guitar amps. The 5881 is the classic fender sound (Stevie Ray Vaughn (SRV), Buddy Guy) which is very clean with a beautiful sustained ringing echo tone. SRV playing 'Lenny' or 'Tin Pan Alley' is a great example of this sound. This sound is great for jazz and clean played blues. I use a fender deluxe w/these. The el-34 is the classic Marshall/British Rock sound (Hendricks, Led Zeppelin, Van Halen, AC/DC, Beatles-Vox w/el84). It has more of a gutsy distorted crunchy character. Examples are: lead notes to On The Road Again (Metallica), the intro to Hells Bells (AC/DC), Whole Lotta Love(Zep), and All Along the Watchtower(Jimi). Those sound like rock (or at least a good argument for) to me

EL34(my favorite tube) is a polite, sweet, laid back, warm, euphonic tube. 6L6 is trashy, gutsy, punchy, and dirty. Which is exactly why you don't see it much in high end audio these days(Mesa Baron and Golden Tube used it). It would get trashed by many a reviewer(playing jazz, classical, folk, chamber, etc.). Maybe not the best for overall performance, but definitely is ROCK. I guess we are saying the same thing when you point out the EL34 is superior to the 6L6/5881 in the Baron(upgrade for audiophiles). We are 180 degrees apart in what we think about guitar amps. Play around with a Mesa Boogie(which I consider THE best non-exotic guitar amp made today). They come with 6L6 standard, but also accept EL34(so you can A/B them directly, unlike comparing different amps). If the amp with 6L6 isn't balls out rock, nothing is. Now switch over to EL34; you can sit right down and play some jazz, fusion, or any other "clean and mellow" sound, and nobody will even blink. Switching from 6L6 to EL34, the amp goes from the garage to the living room.

Been where you are at. The best amp that I would buy would be the manley's studio 440 or 550 they are used in the pro/studio enviroment with high output wattage. I have 4 Optmization Lab amps that were made for Boeing in the late 70's to test spl in jets. High output (250 w ea) with 6 el34 on each amp. I am seriously thinking about selling all my hi end stuff and going the pro studio powered monitors. I have 4 of the big tube amps, 1 burmester 250w 2 adcom 565 mb 300w ea 4 ml electrostat speakers and a pair of german physiks boarderland $$$ and still cant rock like a good club or bar band. I want to move alot of air and sock you in the gut feeling that I want. Never heard the Theil's are you happy with them and what else did you listen to (Dunluvy 5 or 6 's ) But these amp's I have are built alot like the manleys and are rack mounted and have been modified for the Hi Fi enviroment Good Luck Kelton