do tubes rock ??

Got me ALL riled up ! I think the el-34 is THE more definitive rock sound. A little 5881 vs el-34 comparison. I've only seen the 5881 used in the Mesa Baron high end amp which has an 'upgrade' to the el-34. My friend who owns one claims this is a much better sound. Anyway, I have heard/played direct comparisons of these tubes in guitar amps. The 5881 is the classic fender sound (Stevie Ray Vaughn (SRV), Buddy Guy) which is very clean with a beautiful sustained ringing echo tone. SRV playing 'Lenny' or 'Tin Pan Alley' is a great example of this sound. This sound is great for jazz and clean played blues. I use a fender deluxe w/these. The el-34 is the classic Marshall/British Rock sound (Hendricks, Led Zeppelin, Van Halen, AC/DC, Beatles-Vox w/el84). It has more of a gutsy distorted crunchy character. Examples are: lead notes to On The Road Again (Metallica), the intro to Hells Bells (AC/DC), Whole Lotta Love(Zep), and All Along the Watchtower(Jimi). Those sound like rock (or at least a good argument for) to me

EL34(my favorite tube) is a polite, sweet, laid back, warm, euphonic tube. 6L6 is trashy, gutsy, punchy, and dirty. Which is exactly why you don't see it much in high end audio these days(Mesa Baron and Golden Tube used it). It would get trashed by many a reviewer(playing jazz, classical, folk, chamber, etc.). Maybe not the best for overall performance, but definitely is ROCK. I guess we are saying the same thing when you point out the EL34 is superior to the 6L6/5881 in the Baron(upgrade for audiophiles). We are 180 degrees apart in what we think about guitar amps. Play around with a Mesa Boogie(which I consider THE best non-exotic guitar amp made today). They come with 6L6 standard, but also accept EL34(so you can A/B them directly, unlike comparing different amps). If the amp with 6L6 isn't balls out rock, nothing is. Now switch over to EL34; you can sit right down and play some jazz, fusion, or any other "clean and mellow" sound, and nobody will even blink. Switching from 6L6 to EL34, the amp goes from the garage to the living room.

Been where you are at. The best amp that I would buy would be the manley's studio 440 or 550 they are used in the pro/studio enviroment with high output wattage. I have 4 Optmization Lab amps that were made for Boeing in the late 70's to test spl in jets. High output (250 w ea) with 6 el34 on each amp. I am seriously thinking about selling all my hi end stuff and going the pro studio powered monitors. I have 4 of the big tube amps, 1 burmester 250w 2 adcom 565 mb 300w ea 4 ml electrostat speakers and a pair of german physiks boarderland $$$ and still cant rock like a good club or bar band. I want to move alot of air and sock you in the gut feeling that I want. Never heard the Theil's are you happy with them and what else did you listen to (Dunluvy 5 or 6 's ) But these amp's I have are built alot like the manleys and are rack mounted and have been modified for the Hi Fi enviroment Good Luck Kelton

I am currently auditioning a Music Reference RM200, a 100 WPC tube amp, with my Wadia 830, and Medowlark Hwron i speakers. This amp rocks. It has a huge soundstage and incredible imaging. Jonathon Goldman, of Goldman Audio in Ct., has been great about letting me audition amps in my home. I have been searching for the right one, and it is great to have a dealer who is willing to let me spend time with a number of pieces. I will also demo the Bel Canto Evo, and the new Marsh solid state. If anyone wants info on how to contact him, feel free to email. Back to the RM200. This amp is a great piece. It does everything solid state amps do and is holographic in soundstage and imaging. It was first recommended to me by the people at Meadowlark Audio, who use it to demo their speakers.

Hey Trelja, Glad to see we politely agree to disagree ! Can you use a mesa baron as a guitar amp ? How would you connect the outputs of the guitar into this ? Now that I'm thinking of it, I'm going to retube my fender with some alternate 6L6 tubes. I've always used stock issue groove tube 5881's (aka Sovtek 5881WXT), but I want to experiment. The sonic descriptions of the sovtek 6L6WXT+ and even more the Svetlana 6L6GC look interesting.