Graham Phantom vs Triplaner


Wondering about the sonic traits of both these arms compared to each other.

- which one has deeper bass,
- which one has the warmer (relative) balance
- which one is compatible with more cartridges
- which one has the better more organic midrange
- which one has the greater treble detail.
- which one plays music better ( yes this is a more subjective question ).
- which one goes better with say the TW acoustic raven TT.
downunder
Audiofeil I know you advocate the tonearm ahead of the cartridge and after hearing the effects of the Continuum Copperhead on the sound I can achieve, I can understand why you think so.
However where we differ is in the superb improvements in sound that one can achieve with a better cartridge in a 'decent' arm?
The effect of running the ZYX Universe in a Hadcock GH228 was just as astounding as moving up to the Copperhead.
What is your opinion of the Schroeder arms?
The magnetic unipivot principle seems very attractive at first but I have real doubts about it?
I'm convinced that one can induce movement at the pivot point by merely pushing back and forth on the arm.
That must translate into 'lost' information and would account for the descriptions of the Schroeder as 'warm and tubelike'....'relaxed' etc.
In other words I see the Schroeders as potential 'tone-controls' rather than SOTA tonearms?
halcro

Fremer reviews the copperhead and the cheaper TT in the current mnth Stereophile.

Just need to wait til my copy arrives

where we differ is in the superb improvements in sound that one can achieve with a better cartridge in a 'decent' arm?

Rather than casting the issue in terms about how much of a great cartridge's potential can be realized on a less than great arm, I think of it as an approach to the question about where do you put money on a limited budget, when you can purchase a great tonearm or a great cartridge but not both.

I would say at minimum the 'decent arm' needs to support accurate adjustment of the cartridge/cantilever/stylus in all three dimensions. A goodly chunk of the investment in an arm is learning how to use it.
Downunder...I've read it!
As I intimated, he isn't about to compare it, in print, to the Phantom made by his mate Bob Graham!?
Also in the latest Absolute Sound, Jon Valin goes one better on Fremer by making the Raven AC/3 the new REFERENCE! above the Walker...even with the Phantom arm.....and I'm here to tell you that the Copperhead CREAMS the Phantom!!!
Halcro,I wonder if you are involved in the industry,or a hobbyist?Personally I have no issue with either,but I get the impression,from your confident dismissal of the Phantom,Triplanar,and apparrent knocking of the Schroder,that you "just might have a hidden agenda"!
If so,good for you,as I have absolutely no problem with coaxing out some old fashion heated debates,on interesting "hobby" topics.Yet,I think there is a flaw in some of your comments(but DO keep them coming).-:)
Firstly,who (with real hobby experience)cares what Fremer,or Valin likes?They have their own,personal,tastes.Good for them!I have been to numerous homes,of reviewers,in the NY area,where the consenses of the hobbyists present was NOT complimentary of those set-ups.Meaning nothing,other than the "guy" owning the set-up liked "his" own way of doing things.Just fine by me,but I will choose what I like,and no amount of good press does anything for me,other than to cause me to give myself some exposure to a particular product.Recently an "industry" person gave me a very negative description of M.F. set-up's sound!First hand exposure by this guy,but I still dismissed it as his(the industry dude's)taste.We all like what we like.
I definitely am NOT trying to be demeaning,just posing a counter arguement to some of your thoughts.All in good spirits.I hope!
Other than knowing someone who likes something,have you actually compared the Triplanar,Phantom,not to mention Schroder,to the new to the hobby,but fascinating, Continuum Copperhead?I don't include the Cobra,because at 16,000 bucks it will not be a commonly used arm.No matter how good it "might be"!
BTW,my friend was recently at a trade show,and ran into Fremer(who was very nice,according to my pal).My friend,who is very well off financially,asked M.F. what arm he would recommend he buy(my friend has a ton of experience,but wanted to get some feedback).The response was to get a Phantom!!This is not heresay,but a factual account given to me by my pal.
Yet,to me,and in complete honesty,it still amounts to little.Who knows why the Phantom was recommended?I now know it is a great product,as I have it installed.I had a Triplanar,which I liked alot,but have a hunch(based on my way of thinking,ONLY)the Phantom "might" allow a cartridge to give a tad more!A superb "real world" design!NOT 16,000 US dollars!
As to the Copperhead,which I admit to being fascinated with(mostly from NOT knowing it's sound)based on the design brief.Fremer "did" have a negative comment,from my memory of the review.He mentioned something about the arm's internal wiring to "not" be so well addressed.I think he alluded to the possibility of internal "tube resonances".He did not think it was audible,but I got the impression it was still a design in progress.That comment would bother me,if I were lokking to get one. I admit to disagreeing "somwhat" with Audiofeil(God forbid),about putting the "chicken before the egg"!My thoughts are it would be best,if one got the sense that we could "only" hear the cartridge's personality!With all else just getting out of the way!If all else were perefect,THIS would be the most ideal way to hear an LP.Sure the arm is of major importance,but there really should be NO resonances,or annoyances introduced by it,if possible.
I KNOW,in reality that cannot be,but it is how I kinda like to view it!!!...Just my own idiosyncratic way of looking(listening)at things "audio".....ONLY my opinion!!!Nothing more!!
So,if you,Halcro,are so confident about the definitive superiority of the Copperhead(let's exclude the Cobra,for financial reasons)over the afore-mentioned Triplanar,and Phantom(not to mention your legit comment about the Schroder(jury still out on that one),why not post a review of it on this forum?
I would love to read it,and believe me,I hope there are many more products to come,that push the envelope further.Even beyond those that fascinate all of us,as of now.
Best.