Why the sudden popularity of 12 inch arms

Raul

I am only joking with my "crappy" 12 inch arm comments. I was illustrating a point when you said your 12 inch arms offered no performance increase over the 9 inch arms - whereas RG in hifi+ did.

I don't believe I have offered any view of performance whatsoever, except with my comparison to my Naim ARO.

Just interested in the views of other's and anyone that has gone from 9inch to 12 inch.

The fact that we all luv vinyl and continue to buy record's is a joy we all share, no matter how we play em.

Doesn't mean we can't have a debate on any subject thou.

cheers

OK,on topic...When my friend Sid,moved from the "linear" Air Tangent(modded pump)design to the VPI 12.5,and then 12.6 it was clearly obvious(from a few listsners familiar with "that" set-up)that there was a definits loss of believeability/beauty in the Lp's being played.
Like everyone else,investing time and money in a passionate hobby,we still had to walk on eggshells in mentioning this(though when the shoe was on the other foot,El-Sid pulls NO punches...but he's way too loveable to get mad at).
This situation diminished once Richard Foster got his hands on the 12.6(soon to become the 12.7).YET,the Air Tangent was/is still the more "convincing" arm,in that set-up,and by a good margin,IMO!!...From what I am being told,by my local friends,this new 12.7 "could" be the answer(I know Downunder loves his,btw).
So(just some of my hobbyspeak)two weeks ago,I went to hear the newly set-up 12.6,in Sid's set-up,which absolutely sounded better than "it" had ever.BUT...we played alot of familiar material that I distinctly remember being done with the Maxi pump(new/modded pump-compressor) Air Tangent.NOT the standard Air Tangent model which was not close in performance to the current one,we were hearing.
One particular LP played was an Ida Haendl's EMI recording,where the second side contains some magical "subtle" orchestral music.Here,the subtle musical threads REALLY stand out,and with absolutely goegeous timbrel balance.It was HERE that although the 12.6 was quite good(and Sid was very happy),but because of how much I had envied the Air Tangent,on this kind of music,it was clear as a bell,to me,that the 12.6 was still not close.ONLY in the "bloomy,airy,harmonic weightyness" area where a fabulous linear design has NO peers!..If you have NOT heard one,and you regularly follow these threads,do yourself a favor and go hear a good set-up with a good linear arm.Take your own LP's!!...This is not hard,as tables like the Walker(fabulous)can be auditioned AND it will change the way some approach LP "listening perceptions"! Worth the effort!!
From Sid,we went to my friend ED,who has the "shorty" Phantom!Similar music,but not really a big "perceptive" difference from how the long arm "did" music compared to the short arm.
I know this is NOT a valid A/B "thing",but I know both these systems SO well,and finally have enough experience to recognize things relating to the "groove" that it is not a stretch to make the claim.
The 12 inch "thing" seems nice,but the finest short arms are simply too good,to even worry about a bit more length,IMO!
Yet,the linear route is a whole different story.
Now,I've got to hear the 12.7,which just could change my "opinion".
Best

BTW,sorry!I meant the linear/"air bearing" designs!

Dear Doug: Nice to talk with you again.

+++++ " Raul does not much notice or care about two things that happen to matter a great deal to Paul and me: very low level detail.... " +++++

well I did/do ( remember that I posted some where that Paul and you are on the " edge " for VTA/Azymuth changes in every single record?..... ) but certainly my music/sound reproduction priorities are a little different from yours and this fact has nothing wrong, every one of us have different priorities in some audio areas.

+++++ " Of course the materials and manufacturing advances......" +++++

dear Doug how I wish that you could have on hand a SAEC 506 or EPA-100MK2 and Audicraft AC3300 or any of those " very old " tonearms because in that way you could confirm that its build/material quality are second to none ( for say the least ) and up to any " today " tonearm ( but the Cobra that I don't have experience on it ), long or short.

Read what Thomasheisig posted or what you posted ( you are talking of trade-offs. ) or what Sirspeedy or Pryso or Nsgarch or Albert or Onhwy or Bobp posted, there is a common subject on it: real audio/music know-how, every one are talking and coincide ( one way or the other ) in the same main factors/subjects. We all have more coincidences about that differences and that fact say something.

Here are some people emails that I receive or posted in Agon about:

+++++ " BTW have you ever tried the Sony arms? I have just acquired a OUA-1600L and it blew me away on my Victor TT-101:- dynamic, musical, controlled and competitive with my Triplanar / Ikeda / SME V / 801 and possibly superior. I like the removable headshell and right now with a NOS Sony XL-55 MC it rocks! " +++++

+++++ " Experience, like fifty years of it in the hi end, confirms there is no collation between price and better sound. A last point, set up and the arm tend to rule. I've heard $3K cartridges improperly set up by 'experts' and still the owner raved how better it sounded," +++++

+++++ " Raul... the turntable is by far the best I've had in my system. The background is very quiet/black. its made me appreciate my cartride and phono stage more... "+++++ this comes from a TT Micro Seiki owner.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Well, I've heard it said "ignorance is bliss". I have also heard and experienced much bliss down Mexico way. Great place to "get away" from "modern technology" Lots of history to "discover" there as well. There is nothing wrong with enjoying history. I quite encourage it. Having knowledge of the past protects one from repeating the mistakes of the past. Without an in depth knowledge of history, we would be unable to ducument our progress to the current day. I am sure most would agree Black and White photography actually brings something to the art. No one would use it however, to "recreate" an accurate depiction of the subject matter, outside a black and white world. One would employ modern technology to accomplish that. The higher (newer) the technology employed , combined with the expertise at exploiting that technology, the closer to the original the result will appear. Some folks prefer a paint brush to recreate the picture they "see". Very few painters however, would try to convince anyone their art could be mistaken for the real subject matter. Or that paint and canvas is "unfortunately" all there is. Unless perhaps they were "cut off their ear nuts"! Z.