Why the sudden popularity of 12 inch arms

Sir, Speakers truly are a subjective matter. As you can see, I just sold a pair of 20 year old speakers that I liked VERY much. There is old and then there is old; I had ADS speakers in my CAR (!) 20 years ago! The brand had, by this time become obsolete/uncompetitive in the home use market and for a few brief moments they were SOTA in car stereo. The last dying gasp, so to speak. No need to defend Avalon, they are certainly in the top 10? Any company that just survives 20 years in hi-fi is a testament to consumer acceptance. Happy listening! Z.

Downunder, Are you one of the very few lucky listeners to have purchased the MJ Thriller reissue? I would recommend this to everyone but with production so limited, there can only be so many winners here! HA! I crack myself up sometimes... Hey, have you guys heard the one about the guy who found 18 old tonearms floating down the gutter? I try to bang my own head against the wall as few times as possible before realizing a headache is coming on. Seriously, Down, you wouldn't be willing to PDF me that hi-fi + article would ya? Z.

All else being equal, a 12" inch arm should be better than a 9" arm (who can argue with more inches is better, guys?). The trouble is, there is no way to make all else equal.

it is a matter of designers making their choice of tradeoffs. But, to say that one aspect of design, specifically length, is so important that a long arm is inherently superior, as someone mentioned that Roy Gregory has suggested, I don't buy.

Larryi- you nailed it. All designs are compromises. Even "cost no object" designs. As Larry says, a longer arm is always heavier, all else being equal. We can change the arm tube material, or wall thickness,etc., , but then its not the same as the shorter arm.

Zieman- your posts are entertaining, but you don't seem to be able to actually carefully read others. The whole disc/drum analogy is that, (with the exception of truly breakthrough technologies), implementation of any design is usually more important. And I would truly prefer to have a well executed mature design than a first gen more advanced design with flaws and/or low cost materials. Perhaps that's part of the reason why Guarinis and Strativerii (sp?) fetch "a bit" more than current Yamaha violins. Newer sometimes is better, but not always. Non-quantitative (= design execution) factors may be more important in artistic (=music) endeavors than quantitative (= SOTA design) factors.

And of course with vinyl playback, there are so many interactive components involved, I think I fall in Raul's camp...Not on shorter is better (insert your own filthy leering comment here) but on, and I am paraphrasing, its the system. A tone arm/cart/TT/phonostage is a system that can be optimized, but I'm not so sure any one component can be optomized in isolation. My $0.02. YMMV, and if id does, then so be it.

BTW, I would suggest canning the xenophobic remarks. This forum benefits from viewpoints from all cultures.

Z, why would I want the Thriller re-issue?. I have the original!! nice bass sound on some of the tracks as well :-)

re hifi+ pdf. I'll search the article out and email.

So who was the guy who found 18 ton-arms floating down the river?? I am waiting for the punchline

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Moerch arms which are probably the best candidates for testing 9" vs. 12". You can easily swap a Red 9" wand for a Red 12" wand, and the mass will be the same. The only difference is the length. Something obviously must be different if they have the same mass. Thinner wall thickness perhaps or less damping, I don't know. However, they are certainly made with the same design and materials as well as wiring and mechanical connections. Unfortunately, I have never made the comparison myself. All of my experience with the Moerch has been with the 12" Red wand, which sounds very good but I prefer the 9" Triplanar VII. That proves nothing of course.

Dave