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Lp cleaning - scrubbing records - any downside?

I've got a VPI record cleaning machine (which I've had since the 80's, stored for 15 years, and only started using again when I got back into vinyl last year...that's one sturdy piece of equipment!)

I've "modernized" by getting myself some Mo-FI brushes, fluid, etc. And, after reading a bunch of posts on Audiogon, I recently started "scrubbing" records while they're rotating--just short, with-the-groove scrubs, not too hard.

Amazing results. Much better cleaning of "problem" Lps.

So I'm converted. (Why did it take so long? Habit, I guess.) BUT, I have the impression that certain Lp makers (EMI and DG, in particular) used vinyl that at least SEEMS softer than other vinyl, and more easily damaged. And one of the 2nd hand Lp dealers I know is of the same impression...so I guess it's not just me.

Does anybody have any negative experience with scrubbing to report? Could it damage some records?

Many thanks.
eweedhome
hdm
1,061 posts
 
I'm not a fan of scrubbing. I use only carbon fibre brushes for wet cleaning. Figure I ruined a record the only time I did heavier scrubbing with the Nitty Gritty brush. I'm convinced that I simply ground whatever was there into the grooves either further embedding it or causing groove damage by grinding it in.

There are very few records I can't get into excellent condition with a couple of thorough cleanings/steamings/vacs. If they still sound crappy I put it up to groove damage and toss them. I'd rather let a really troublesome record soak for a while than scrub it.
dopogue
1,773 posts
 
Scrub away. It helps with the problem discs, doesn't hurt with the others, and i've never damaged one. I use Last brushes with a manual Nitty Gritty RCM, for what it's worth. Been doing it since the early 1980s. Good luck, Dave.
dougdeacon
3,338 posts
 
I scratched the dead wax on a DG just by setting downforce too high on the vacuum arm on my Loricraft. (BTW, "too high" means "per Loricraft's instructions".)

I don't know if other record labels would be as easily damaged, and I don't want to find out! I reduced the downforce as soon as I saw the damage.

As far as cleaning goes, while I do use DD brushes for two of the solutions in my regimen I'm not convinced that scrubbing very hard is beneficial. I'm more in Hdm's camp. If I need more energetic fluid motion I'd try steaming or maybe ultrasonic rather than physical abrasion.
dopogue
1,773 posts
 
I guess it depends on the definition of "scrub." Using MY definition, I've never damaged an LP :-)

On the other hand, I do tend to buy a lot of used records from various sources where record cleanliness is not considered next to godliness. These frequently have nits embedded in the surface which, if not removed, can have very nasty effects on the sound (and maybe the stylus). So I keep a good strong light on the record while, yes, scrubbing, so I can find those suckers and banish them. I've never yet found steaming to be necessary but I may try it some day.
eweedhome OP
227 posts
 
I scrubbed another batch today, including some EMI's. I'll report back.

What got me excited about scrubbing was a 50's RCA Toscanini disc of La Mer. I cleaned with w/ a regular cleaner and the VPI, with no scrubbing. The record looked pretty good, but there was that gravely surface noise that suggested deep grunge in the grooves. So then I used the MoFi Super Clean fluid (enzyme-based) and let it sit for about 5 minutes each side (but no scrubbing). Got, some improvement, but not enough.

A month or two later, I started playing around with scrubbing, and pulled out the Toscanini as one of my "experiments". I scrubbed for about a minute, AFTER letting the Super cleaner sit for several minutes to get the enzyme going. The results were amazing...most of the gravel was gone.

Part of the trick may be the MoFi brushes. My impression of them is very favorable.

I'll report back on the EMI's.
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